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Technical Body Filler Stigma

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by RamblinPat, Jul 9, 2015.

  1. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,975

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    We always used the cheese grater (Stanley Surform). Hell when I started all we had was the Vixen file.

    One prob was the sticky surface on the filler, you had to cut that off with the cheese file or it would clog up your sandpaper in about 3 seconds. Or wash the surface with thinners and who wants to do that.

    So, does the new stuff harden with a dry surface or what?
     
  2. MAD 034
    Joined: Aug 30, 2011
    Posts: 771

    MAD 034
    Member
    from Washington

    I say the more filler the better. Kidding aside -- correct plastic application and subsequent sculpting is an art and should be embraced by all.
     
  3. gas & guns
    Joined: Feb 6, 2014
    Posts: 368

    gas & guns
    Member

    The old "Black Knight" bondo would dull a cheese grater. That shit was hard.
     
  4. 1-SHOT
    Joined: Sep 23, 2014
    Posts: 1,513

    1-SHOT
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The original Bondo set up so hard you needed to surface it with a grinder. Then put a skim coat to file it, we ever had 24 grit long board paper then work our way to 40 grit then 80 grit then to 100C before we got it ready to prime.
    HAS ANY ONE USED A CABLE GRINDER? Or old enough remember them. Before electric grinders, before air grinders. How about compressors that used flat belts , or have to make your own acetaline ? I have just curious if any one is old enough to remember.
     
    gas & guns likes this.
  5. Dick Stevens
    Joined: Aug 7, 2012
    Posts: 2,560

    Dick Stevens
    Member

    I think there are a lot of us old enough, I haven't seen a carbide generator in a lot of years. ;)
     
  6. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,975

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    I had a Black and Decker 7" grinder back when they made tools not plastic toys. It cost 2 weeks pay. My first spray gun was a DeVilbiss that also cost 2 weeks pay. There are some fantastic bargains in tools these days. Anyone who wants to try doing his own work, can get the tools much easier than 50 years ago.

    Have seen carbide generators but they were in the back of the shop covered in dust. I think they were WW2 surplus.
     
  7. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,137

    dirty old man
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Enjoyed this thread immensely, and at almost 78 now, I doubt I'll be doing any major body work in my lifetime, but it's been interesting to me, cause I've done some of the work discussed here, going all the way back to using lead on the line and repair hole at a Fisher Body plant back in 50s&60s, never did a lot of plastic, and what I did resulted in a wide spread of results. Instead I gravitated into the machinist/toolmaker trade for the last 49 years, only doing minor body stuff on various vehicles I owned.
    Reading stuff here about application, mixing, etc, helps me understand why I had such a varying degree uf success. I often violated some of the suggestions noted here. And did so because I didn't know any better!
     
    Model T1 likes this.
  8. Yup that is one of the benefits of newer fillers. Fillers are much better at self leveling these days. They will leave far fewer ridges and spreader marks than older products do which results in having to do less sanding. They also sand considerably better than older products even those of a few years ago. Our new Rage Ultra sands about 30% faster than other fillers.

    Also using old products can lead to the above mentioned problems as well. The resins dry out and degrade as do hardeners. This can lead to unintentionally over or under catalysing because the hardener isn't as strong or there is less resin in a given pile of filler. Will you get away with it without problems? More than likely yes but when it doesn't work it is always the product that gets blamed when it is not necessarily the case.

    I have been at this for 11 years and fillers have hardened with a dry surface as long as I have been doing it if they are allowed to fully cure.
     
    Model T1 likes this.
  9. K-13,
    Is there any difference between red, blue or white hardeners other than the obvious color
     
  10. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 5,850

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    If done right it could look like a flag? :D I used to swap between blue and red sort of like using guide coats...Never seen a white..
     
  11. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 5,850

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    That was my first plastic, evil I thought...
     
  12. No just different dye colour so it is easier to see in different coloured fillers. We do make a filler, Quantum, that does have 3 different speed hardeners, in this case the colours do make a difference but they are unique hardeners specific to this particular product.
     
    Model T1 likes this.
  13. Autodave
    Joined: Jul 28, 2013
    Posts: 125

    Autodave
    Member
    from Menifee,Ca

    I don't think that your doing anything wrong with that technique. I used to use 36 grit on large repairs, but for me, I have just become better at it...straightening/spreading/sanding.
    I have been doing it for 25 yrs.(and am still) and have learned that you don't need to be so aggressive with surface prep and sanding of the filler. For myself I never go beyond 50 grit for metal prep and I start sanding the filler with 80 grit.
    Newer products are better, they sand better and have excellent adhesion but I feel it still comes down to managing your repair so you are not creating more work for yourself.
     
    Model T1 likes this.
  14. See on the can:
    With white cream hardener.

    image.jpg

    It's been a while since I've actually gotten the white with the dura glass though.
     
    Model T1 likes this.
  15. Man I hate spreader marks
     
  16. Autodave
    Joined: Jul 28, 2013
    Posts: 125

    Autodave
    Member
    from Menifee,Ca

    Spreading without spreader marks is a big factor, and often overlooked. You will spend half of your time getting rid of the marks as opposed to sanding your repair.
     
  17. boo
    Joined: Jul 6, 2005
    Posts: 528

    boo
    Member
    from stuart,fl.

    wow, I WAS JUST USING A CHEESE GRATER LAST WEEK, DIDN'T KNOW I WAS DOING SOMTHING WRONG. THE ORIGINAL BONDO YOU NEEDED A JACKHAMMER TO WORK IT. ONLY WAY I HAD TO CUT IT WAS A COURSE BASTARD FILE, NEW STUFF IS A LOT BETTER.
     
  18. Seen bondo up to the door handles on that show. I just don't like cutting door gaps with it just to make it straight. I bang out my edges for a steel edge if i can. Every car you see will have bondo or gallons of hi build primer or both. Just the way it is. I don't care what kind of metal man you are.
     
  19. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 5,889

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    How come filler doesn't come in two tubes that go in the same gun and distribute the proper ratio automatically? How closely do you guys follow the "one inch ribbon per golf ball" or whatever it is? I've always just eyeballed it.
     
  20. oldolds
    Joined: Oct 18, 2010
    Posts: 2,721

    oldolds
    Member

    They make air dispensers that will handle up to a 5 gallon can of filler that also put out the proper hardener.
     
  21. I don't think I've ever mixed just a golf ball size :) I don't think I've ever used exactly one tube of Hardner for the almost kinda sorta short 1 gallon of product either. I'm not sure Ive ever seen anywhere at anytime 2 batches mixed up and be the exact same color - and that means the amounts of hardner were different.

    That being said,
    over or undercatalyzed product is the source of all bodywork evil.
     
    Model T1 likes this.
  22. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,975

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Amount of hardener changes with temp, humidity, whether you are putting it on metal or over filler, even the age of the filler. I hardly ever used the amount recommended, usually it took more although in hot weather it took less.
     
  23. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 5,889

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    Right. I was thinking of my hair piece adhesive.

    There we go.
     
  24. Autodave
    Joined: Jul 28, 2013
    Posts: 125

    Autodave
    Member
    from Menifee,Ca

  25. JimSibley
    Joined: Jan 21, 2004
    Posts: 3,104

    JimSibley
    Member

    I invented the hamb, while rooming with al gore in college.
     
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  26. gas & guns
    Joined: Feb 6, 2014
    Posts: 368

    gas & guns
    Member

    I have a cable grinder. A small one, called a Dumore (name brand) its like a dremel. Probably 1940ish, used to be my gr uncles, he used it for gunsmithing. The co. still in business. I used it till the cable broke.
    Also have an antique airbrush that threads onto a valve stem. Near as I can figure, you were supposed to thread it on a tire for air supply.
    My dad had a B&D industrial 3/8 drill, my buddy an I when we were young cocks, put a sanding disk on it to grind the old Black Knight. We run that drill till she was smoking and burned her up. The old man was pissed, damn near kicked both are asses.
     
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  27. chrisp
    Joined: Jan 27, 2007
    Posts: 770

    chrisp
    Member

    I hate bodymen who leave filler cans open or half open, it becomes harder and harder to spread as it's drying out plus dust gets in. I use to thin cans of filler with polyester resin when the Honey thingy wasn't on hand, also to have a more flowing bondo with less pin holes.
    The best filler I worked with is the Rage brand, unfortunately impossible to get in France...
     
  28. Not trying to pick on you but this is what leads to problems with filler guys think it is a sliding scale on using hardener. Can you imagine telling a painter to use more or less hardener with paint because it is humid out or hot out. The correct amount is 2% by weight or 50:1 by volume and there is about a 10% window of variable before you start to effect the performance of the product. Using the correct amount will ensure the optimum performance of the product and anything else you take your chances because the farther you swing form that 2% the greater the chance you will have a failure.
     
    Model T1 likes this.
  29. gas & guns
    Joined: Feb 6, 2014
    Posts: 368

    gas & guns
    Member

    Duraglas is some mean shit. A friend had an old dodge van he used for carpenter work. The back doors were so rusty, the lower latch fell out. He had another door with good bottom. We cut off the whole bottom horizontally about 8 in. up. I used a torch and coat hanger to weld it on. Tacking about every 2-3 in. We then slicked the seam with duraglas inside and outside the van. The only place we ground off the paint is where i welded. We put the mud over paint . I then knocked off the turds with 36 grit. Shot a couple coats of red oxide lacquer primer over it and called her good ( he didn't care what it looked like, just wanted a door that worked).
    He drove it about 4 more yrs. The day he took it to the scrap yard he said," see if you can knock that shit out of there". I took a 3 lb hammer an commenced to knocking the shit out of that door and couldn't knock that shit out. Caved in the whole door.

    I used that stuff on a radiator once that was too soft to solder. Smashed it right into the fins. Drove that truck a couple yrs till I junked it. Still wasn't leaking. It is waterproof.
     
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  30. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 5,889

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    ^^You should send that in so they can put it on the can.

    What's the usual method, measure by volume, weight or just learn to eyeball it?
     

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