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Technical bias tires and tubes

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Packrat, Aug 22, 2016.

  1. Packrat
    Joined: Aug 25, 2005
    Posts: 445


    I'm hoping someone can help me with this. I put new Firestone's on the week before the Hamb drags last year. I drove it to work that whole week, then right after pulling into the Mokan drive my drivers tire went flat, maybe 200 miles on it. When I pulled the tire off the wheel I didn't find anything in the tire but there was a hole in the tube. I put a new tube in and it's been fine since then.Maybe I should mention that I'm running 40 wheels and that prior to buying these tires and wheels I haven't really had any experience with tubes in automobile tires. My last tires were bias ply but tubeless. That brings me to this years Hamb drags. No problem at all till we were driving home Saturday evening on 96 about half way between Carthage and I-44 my drivers rear tire went flat. I put on my spare and go on home. When I pulled the tire yesterday I found a small hole in the tube but nothing in the tire. I should mention also that I drive this car all the time when the weather's decent. The whole point of this long winded thread is to ask what's caused this flat when there's nothing in the tire. Is it caused by friction between the tire and tube? If so I've probably got other's ready to give me problems. Maybe there's something else I should be doing when I mount the tire? This is not intended as anything against the Firestone's, I love these tires. I know lots of people are running these without these problems. I would like to know how to not have flats though. I had this car 9 1/2
    years before I got these tires and never had a flat. Any help or advise would be greatly appreciated. Sorry about being so long winded. I want to add that I checked my tires prior to heading out and they were all good,32 to 35 pounds.
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2016
  2. did you use talcum powder when mounting them?
  3. Hot Rod Rodney
    Joined: Jun 20, 2014
    Posts: 158

    Hot Rod Rodney
    from USA

    Yeah, youngsters mounting tires today have little experience with inner tubes. Could have neglected the anti-abrasion powder. Or it could have been pinched when originally installed.

    I had two consecutive sets of brand new Firestone bias ply tires fail at the same exact point in the tread casting with only a couple hundred miles on them. The tread actually started began separating from the casing. Keep your eyes on them.
  4. Packrat
    Joined: Aug 25, 2005
    Posts: 445


    I didn't use any kind of a powder in them, didn't know anything about that. 36- 3 window, what kind of talcum powder are you referring to? And Rodney, is there a powder made specifically for this? As far as my tires, so far they look great, no separation that I can see. I will keep my eye on them though.

  5. When installing the tube, inflate it, then let it deflate. Then install the core in the valve stem and inflate the tire to proper pressure. This procedure gets the wrinkles/creases out of the tube. Wrinkles and creases can cause week spots in the tube. Also, take one of the bad tubes (if you can put it on the same wheel it came from) stick it on the wheel and see if there is a rough spot in the wheel that aligns with the hole in the tube. I'm kinda leaning towards it being a wrinkle or crease in the tube. Tim
  6. Hate to ask - were they american made tubes?
  7. Packrat
    Joined: Aug 25, 2005
    Posts: 445


    I tried to read what it said on the tube but it was too worn off. I got them at my local tire store so probably not. What tubes are American made? I know the new ones I got today aren't, they're Carlisle but say made in China. Tim, thanks for the advice.
  8. Inked Monkey
    Joined: Apr 19, 2011
    Posts: 1,807

    Inked Monkey

    I always use plain old baby powder when installing my tubes. Seems to keep everything moving. With that said, I still get a bad tube every now and then and its super frustrating! The best tubes I've found so far are Firestones from a tractor supply.
    loudbang likes this.
  9. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,918

    jimmy six

    I buy them one size smaller than recommended on the tire size and 1" larger on the rim size and use talcum powder. I have also used Kenda motorcycle tubes with metal stems with great success. On tube stems make sure they are either angle or vertical stems to match your rim hole. Good luck.
  10. Packrat
    Joined: Aug 25, 2005
    Posts: 445


    Inked Monkey, you're right, it is super frustrating! My wife says we have a large bottle of baby powder from many years ago in the closet, I'll use that.
    Jimmy, thanks for the advise, I need the good luck for sure. Thanks to everyone for their input, I'd like to do this as correctly as possible.
  11. I had the same problem with my old 40 sedan,the right rear kept going flat and after the second time I found a rough spot on the rim.

    With older rims there can be rough areas where the tube comes in contact with the rim and this can abrade the tube and eventually wear a hole in the tube.

    They make a tube flap or liner for old rims,but I just use duct tape that will smooth the center of the rim. HRP
    cs39ford and 1927graham like this.
  12. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,217


    Where were the holes in the tube? On the tread area, or sides or against the wheel?

    Letting the air out on install, prevents a wrinkle that will cause a flat, but a wrinkle would show on the tube. That wrinkle cut will usually be a slit, not a perfect tiny round puncture.

    The antique car crowd has complained for years, about tube rubber quality as well as being too thin.

    Back in the day, tire stores in my area never used talc, but the tubes then were thick, high quality rubber.
  13. Cliff Ramsdell
    Joined: Dec 27, 2004
    Posts: 1,232

    Cliff Ramsdell

    When I mounted the tires and tubes on my Model A with '40 wheels I cleaned the inside wheels very good to prevent chaffing of the tube and wheel. They have rim strips for the wire laced wheels if yours are bad.

    I also noticed the difference in tubes, thin china made to a thicker US made tube when I got a flat also but the other 3 have been good so far.

    I used baby powder and also inflated my tubes prior to installation. It's been some years since I have installed tubes in car tires and the old tubes used to come with a coating on them of some powder, something bad for you I'm sure.

    Cliff Ramsdell
  14. Packrat
    Joined: Aug 25, 2005
    Posts: 445


    HRP, I blasted these wheels and painted them last summer, I thought they looked pretty good on the inside but I'll give them a good looking over. The duct tape sounds like a good idea.

    F&J, the front one that went flat last year did have a slit in it. The one Saturday appears to be a small hole and it was on the inside. Hard to tell exactly as it was close to the wheel area about 4 inches from the valve stem.
  15. ol-nobull
    Joined: Oct 16, 2013
    Posts: 1,494


    Hi. I recall when I got my tires from Coker there was a note stating to remove all paper stickers inside tires when using tubes as leaving stickers would cause tube problems.

  16. 2935ford
    Joined: Jan 6, 2006
    Posts: 3,390


    I am not sure any tire tubes are US made now.
    I have several tubes and they are Made in Viet Nam, China and India.
    The Chinese versions are extremely thin and have failed more than once on me. Same with the India ones.
    I refuse to buy or install then.
    The Viet Nam tubes are a much thicker rubber and I have had no issues so far.
    Your issue could simply be poorly made tubes!
  17. Did you install the rubber "flaps" on the rim before mounting the tires?
    Some say that's a must.
    When we installed Firestones on the roadster with 40 style wheels, we had no flaps. So we used the old duct tape trick. Wrapped a couple turns of tape around the wheel where it contacts the tube. Up to about an inch or so from the edge of rim. Did this on all four wheels. In 4 years, never had a flat. Finally the front tires wore bald and we replaced them. When we popped off the tire and tube, the old duct tape was good as new and we reused it for the new tires. You could add talcum powder to the mix also I'd guess.

    Freaked out the two young tire guys too at the tire shop... both stood slack jawed and confused as I explained it. Totally clueless. They also said the tire "couldn't balance because of the tubes". We put them on the machine and easily balanced them.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2016
  18. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 15,785


    You did make sure the tubes were the correct size for that tire, right? Not just diameter but also the tire size.
  19. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,115


    This is your clue that you need to use talc or some other powder in them. Friction from flexing between the tire, tube and wheel will wear through the tubes. Were there any rubber crumbles or rubber dust inside when you dismounted the tire?
  20. Most tubes years ago came powdered up. I never had a bad tube that I can recall, did loads of hand-mounts for friends that had British cars on wire wheels too, no issues. I do note that on my kids' bicycles, the tubes they are making now are pretty crappy. More flats on those for no reason, hole in the tube, tire is okay.
  21. Baby powder works.

    its not just the youngsters mounting them with inexperience, the better tubes used to come already powdered. Some of today's tubes have weak spots as well. I usually use radial tubes and have ever since gawd knows when, they are heavier.

    Living where you do you could also have a thorn in the tire, thorns from a *hedge tree are hardtop find in a tire. You actually almost have to turn the tire inside out to find one. We used to toss a hedge limb in the driveway when we are really made at someone.

    *also called a locust tree.
  22. swanwaco32
    Joined: Feb 7, 2005
    Posts: 144


    Make sure there is not any stickers on the inside of the tire..!!! The tube will stick to it and wear a hole in the tube...!!!
  23. Packrat
    Joined: Aug 25, 2005
    Posts: 445


    Thanks for all the replies guys, lots of good suggestions and ideas. Sounds like I need to make sure that the inside of the wheel is smooth and wrap it good with duct tape, then use some baby powder. And air the tube up then deflate it, then finish airing it up. I did make sure that the stickers were off the inside before mounting. Porknbeaner, where do you find radial tubes? Alchemy, yes they are the correct size tubes. They could have been wrinkled and I didn't have powder in them. I really appreciate all the help from everyone.

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