Battery cables made from welding cables?

I'll buy that, DTBD. Cheaper to install at the factory or service center level. Makes sense, thank you.

 

Close. The voltage appears across the ends. The current flows inside the wire - in AC circuits it tends to stay away from the center of the wire (the 'skin' effect). The power is delivered as a field; this surrounds the wire.

Power = Volts * Amps (DC circuits)

Power = Volts * Amps * Cosine Theta (the power factor) (AC circuits) (Let's not even go there)

 

if copper will work harden, i better get busy and replace every wire in my entire car. some of the bs floating around about cables needs to be in the most absurd claims thread. Oh i forgot it has to be that SPECIAL copper they put in premade battery cables,it's a whole lot different then the REGULAR copper in welding cables.last time i checked copper was copper.

 

Because if you manufacture something, you use the least expensive material that meets the requirements.

Automotove battery cable manufacturers do this. Welding cable manufacturers do it, too, which is why welding cable is not as 'good' as nuclear submarine cable.

 

Welding cable in my race car, I was watching the show this morning and they were building a small block chevy and were going to give some building tips . He said to heat up the pistons and rods to 225 degrees and squirt Z-Max in the metal before install then Brian interviewed Burton Smith and talked about Z-max. On the short block build he said to have a good ring compressor and tap in the piston but he should have said something about ring placement on the pistons BEFORE tapping in the piston.

 

Aluminum cable is definitely lighter, carries current with less of a loss, and is used more often than you think.
The drawbacks, however are directly related to the reason why it has been banned long ago from all residential wiring.

The power companies use it because it can transport lots of power without big losses, is easier to hang without lots of weight, and is durable- doesn't corrode easily when out in the weather.

The reason it is banned from buildings is also the corrosion factor- the fact that aluminum develops it's own "skin" that on the one hand helps keep it from corroding further, but on the other hand, makes for very high resistance in the connections. MANY HOUSE FIRES! In the 1960's Kaiser Aluminum had a big BIG problem with that since they were the biggest supplier of aluminum wire for residential use.

There is a special compound that electricians and linemen must use on the aluminum connections to prevent the almost inevitible high-resistance and heat buildup when the aluminum forms its "skin" from exposure to the air. What makes aluminum hard to weld also makes it dangerous or unreliable to use for wiring- the skin it develops.
On a race car that you work on constantly, I suppose it is easy to deal with simply by cleaning connections regularly, but reliable connections for the long term are not it's strong suit.
I see it sold for race cars but I do not know how commonly it is used.

 

Shit. I thought it went in there and came out here. Or was it it goes in there and comes out hereafter?

One thing is for certain. If it all went through the conductor(using the old fashioned water hose example) when somebody got struck by lightning there wouldn't be enough left for a bbq sandwich.

When I'm done hooking up wires I use the connect-the-dots principle. All trouble shooting points out a lack of connection or a short circuit bypassing the desired circuit.

I'm starting to think we hot-rodders could be the cause in the economy slump. Should we be buying pre-fabbed battery cables and supporting clip-artists instead of re-cycling surplus cables ripped out of atlas-missile-silos? Is my signature, "work with what you got" unpatriotic?

(just kidding, he, he, he.......)

 

I can guarantee you that he fixed something else. No way would changing from copper welding to aluminum battery cables cause the engine to run 600 RPM faster. Unless, of course, he had the copper welding cable wrapped around the crankshaft pulley.

The reason they're labelled that way is that current flows from "negative" to "positive". So electrons are "added" to the positive post and "subtracted" from the negative. But in the end, it's a loop, so even though the electrons move, the end result is there is no change in the quantity of them, it's just that they are terribly inconvenienced by relocation.

 

Now that is downright funny...

 

I ended up with a spool of very nice cable used to wire a very large emergency power supply for a serious computer.

On first blush I thought the stuff was aluminum because the wire looked silver when the insulation was removed. It turned out to be made of copper strands that were of a smaller gauge than battery cables but thicker than welding cable. I am not sure what the silver coating is.

It seems like a very high quality wire with a very durable insulation.

We used it on my sons Mustang and I am useing it on my 39..

BONUS it is blue!



Back on topic,,, Common Sense says that welding cable makes great battery cable, when this common sense is backed up with real world experience, it will be hard for Sam to back up his statement even if he tried.

Don't you just love it when someone tells you that something you have done and is working wont work?

Some people are thick that way, sometimes they get plum pissed off...

 

When I was working for my uncle we were getting requests from guys wanting to know if we had welding cable all the time, going back probably 10 years ago. Eventually started getting spools of it from our cable distributor. Costs about the same as the battery cable we ordered for making cables for other commercial customers.

 

I'am with Packard, I've used welding cable since the late 60's on dozens of cars, my own included. When the Mormon Meteor 3 was re-restored last year. I build 4 OO cables over 12 feet long each and measured the voltage drop...it was very small, less than one half volt at that length. Those "reality" fix your car shows just promote some lame products with stupid "hosts" that pimp the goods. When Isky, Phil Remington, Dan Gurney, or someone of that stature hosts, I'll watch.

 

Simple answer here guys...

You can't buy welding wire in RED. Sammy needs a red wire for the positive and black wire for the negative, otherwise he gets confused.

 

hahaha.... sounds about right. Next week he'll have a sponsor for "fancy" multi color shrink tube and he'll be pushing welding cable with red shrink tube on the end.

 

I think you are referring to the property of an aluminum wire of the same WEIGHT as a copper wire of the same length. A Copper wire of the same DIAMETER as an Aluminum wire will have lessw voltage drop over the same distance as an Aluminum one. That's why copper was the standard, the bench-mark. Aluminum was chosen as an alternative to copper because of it's lower unit cost, and of course for it's lighter weight in long suspended spans, as with power lines.

Long ago, isn't that long ago..............and just wait and see. Somebody with big pockets still has the ability to convince legislators and code writers that they have come up with a new-fangled fix, (to the problems with loosening connections) with the cunsumer and public safety to be in second place.

I'm a bit older, remember when building codes all required copper. Then they were changed by pressure from Alcoa and Kaiser even when the drawbacks were known. At that time it was already known that the end connections got loose due to the fact that the aluminum's expansion rate was such that with normal temperatrue changes it flexed/flowed/diameter reduced, and the crimp and clamp type connection got loose, causing a bad connection with resulting overheating of that connection over time. So they tested new type crimp connections and said those would work. Guess what, they didn't.

Besides that, for decades, self-help home owners wired their houses with the lower cost aluminum, using old fashioned connectors and switch boxes designed for use with copper wire. So, it still took many fires and deaths, then, after disaster after disaster, use of aluminum wiring was banned again. There are still unknown numbers of houses with aluminum wiring, and unless the problem is brought up during a pre-inspection when it is re-sold or an insurance inspector discovers it, they will not be repaired.

What's the point of my history lesson? History repeats itself. The people that would profit from re-introducing aluminum wiring in houses are spring-loaded to position themselves before congress to reverse the action, just as soon as the public forgets.

It won't surprise me a bit the day I walk into Home Depot or Lowes and they are selling aluminum wiring, with a tongue in cheek attitude proporting that the wire is for use in machine sheds not designed for human habitation.

 

A few of my fellow racers at the dirt track here in Bako run jumper cable wire to relocate their battery into the trunk area. Its thick, usually cheap and all you do is pop off the alligator clips and put battery lugs on. Withstands many re-installations into "new" race cars and holds up to vibration well. Most of the cars have no alternator also so conductivity efficiency is of concern. Just my .02-Weeks

 

Used 0 gauge welding cable in all my battery in the trunk installations. It is nice and flexible making it easier to follow the floor contours and have never had a problem.

 

The TV show evidently was promoting their sponsors products. I have used welding cable on all my race cars and family cars when the cables needed replacing. I have several cars now that has welding cable for 30 years and still like new. I would rather be in my car shop than looking at a TV any way.

 

Aluminum can be used but will need a bigger size to carry the same amperage load as copper. All connections must use a CU/AL rated connector as automotive terminals contain copper or brass. Electrolytic gel is recommended for use on terminal connections, which in turn will collect dirt/dust from it's surroundings. IMO, it ain't worth the trouble, Rod.

 

Just to add a bit, aluminum is still allowed for service entrance cable (wire between meter and main service feed in the house). Rod.

 

No problems here. We use #4 weling cable on all of our cars. Never any problems.

 

Welding cable does come in other colors too. Black, green, yellow, blue, red and orange. You will just have to order it.

https://weldingsupply.securesites.com/cgi-bin/einstein.pl?Next::1:UNDEF::::PA2

Your local "boomer" stereo shop is also a source for high quality finely stranded cable. The stereo shops also usually have some nice gold plated ring terminals and battery terminals too.

 

This almost got my house! The clue was that when I would fire up a high-draw device, the lights would temporarily brighten, just the opposite of what you would expect. Turns out that when the wire was asked to supply the extra current, it would arc, thereby temporarily supplying more juice, leading to the lights brightening.

"Arcing" and "inside my walls" is not the visual I wanted...

This may be, but this is exactly what was arcing in my house's walls.
As to the welding cables causing problems, well, they certainly WOULD; for Mr. Mammola: He'd be fired for not supporting a sponsor!!

Cosmo

 

The difference is the service entrance conductors are in at least schedule 80 pipe where they enter the house. They also terminate under heavier lugs. I don't have a problem with aluminum entrance conductors, I have a problem with the receptacles and switches with the stab back connectors, now THOSE things are freakin' dangerous!!!! Do. Not. Use.

 

What he said. Cable is cable, as long as it is copper... That's what I used running from the back of my rod (in avatar) to the 302 Ford in front. Used welding cable (hell it's just heavy wire) in a 51 Merc from the trunk to a 350 Chev in the engine compartment. ... If it's copper and the right AWG gage it'll work.

 

We build sevice entrance switch gear here where I work and that's what they use to wire it up with. All different sizes and applications.
The electrical engineer said it'd work great for a trunk mounted battery. I used #1 size. Cheaper and no problems starting even when it's vey cold.

 

Technically speaking a 2/0 welders cable has a greater amount of strands than a standard 2/0 battery cable (size makes no real differance, just a comparison), the greater amount of strands gives it its' flexability, the real differance here is that amperage flows only on the outer 20% of a given copper conductor (currant see's copper wire like a tube). So the greater amount of smaller conductors in the welders cable means that size for size it will flow more amperage than battery cable and with less voltage drop.
Welders cable is a grade up from battery cable and is usually more expensive. And thats' the truth.

 

all electricity travels on th outside of the wire

If that were true, you could simply use 16 gauge wire hammered flat into a ribbon.
00 gauge wire is .3648" diameter. The surface area of a 1" length is 1.146 square inches.
16 gauge wire is .0508" diameter. A ribbon .001" thick is about 2" wide, which gives a 1" long surface area of about 4" (top & bottom) - over 3 times the DC capacity of 00 gauge.

And that's why it doesn't work.

 

I've never heard that argument before...I bestow $1 million points for thinking outside of the box. I'm not saying you're right or wrong, just outside the box.

 

I've used welding cable on several cars, and it's the best cable ever. I use the kind of heavy heat shrink tubing that has an inner liner that melts around the cable to hermetically seal the connections from moisture. Remember to keep a little slack where it hooks up to the starter to allow for engine vibration.

I use the welding wire that has fine strands of copper in 0 or 1 gauge. It's really flexible for its size, and has a durable covering.