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Banger ramblings for November!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by hotrodfil, Oct 31, 2006.

  1. Well - it's just turned November here - watcha got planned for the winter Northern Hemisphere obviously...) months?

    We had our own little 4-banger meet here at the weekend. Fired up my recent aquisition, a RHD 14.9 Model A fordor sedan. Well - it's a start. Can't see me featuring in the Four Banger Meltdown yet a while though!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Mark has had a new crown wheel and pinion cut - about 3:1 now, so his Standard Special (is that an oyxmoron?) now cruises around 70 - not bad for a stock A engine running a marine carb.
     
  2. Sawracer
    Joined: Jul 6, 2006
    Posts: 1,314

    Sawracer
    Member
    from socal

    Tell me more about the 70 mph A. I don't understand all the lingo so you have to talk down to me a bit. What exactly do you call the black car body style? I love it. JP

    What's a crown wheel? Is a marine carb bigger?
     
  3. Ah - bottom pic, that's a 1930 Standard Nine Avon bodied Special. Mark 111.
    The original 1100cc engine has been removed and replaced with a stock Model A engine and gearbox, converted to open drive. The marine carb is off a tiny little engine but it's the only thing there was room for. Although he has a Riley head on order that will "solve" that problem.
    It's basically a little british sportscar - the body was built by the Jensen brothers before they began manufacturing their own cars.

    Ah - crownwheel and pinion. Final drive... Original was 5.5:1, so it's stepped up a little now!

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Artiki
    Joined: Feb 17, 2004
    Posts: 1,998

    Artiki
    Member
    from Brum...

    Yeah, I love the look of that Standard. Congrats - once again - on the purchase of the 4-door, Phil.
    All I've done with my coupe so far since the weather went cold is cover it up to stop it getting covered in weld spatter. I'm just trying to get my '66 Volvo Amazon back on the road so that I can launch myself into the A with no distractions.
     
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  5. Outback
    Joined: Mar 4, 2005
    Posts: 1,083

    Outback
    Member
    from NE Vic

    Dun nothin, Tryin to sell to finance other projects not joy, will go and have a look and a sit in it on the weekend...
    Not getting out of the 4 banger game though ;)

    BTW I love that special!!!

    Outback
     
  6. Darwin
    Joined: Oct 14, 2002
    Posts: 505

    Darwin
    Member

    Ring gear on this side of the pond but crown gear is more evocative of, well, you know. Small wonder the thing is that speedy. It must be a couple feet shorter vertically than the typical Model A speedster. Lot of engine really for a car that size. The original motor was only 1100cc after all and probably was anemic, torque wise especially, compared to a 40HP A motor. Since it's three times the displacement it must indeed be a press fit in that engine compartment.

    Few auto makers here ever built engines as small as 1100cc. Crosley and Nash come to mind but not many others. Did I read that right? It had a 5.5 to 1 rear axle? Sounds more like the compression ratio. The pinion shaft must have been about the size of your pinkie. The car is completely beyond cool.
     
  7. I like that special!

    I'm dipping my panels in molasses at the moment. This weekend I'm hoping to go up the coast to a restorer's place to buy a roadster boot lid, torque tube & to see what other goodies he has stashed away that he wants to off load. :D

    oh, almost forgot my roadster is pictured in this months Hop Up! :cool:
     
  8. Outback
    Joined: Mar 4, 2005
    Posts: 1,083

    Outback
    Member
    from NE Vic

    Wow, good onya Jimmy! :cool:

    OB
     
  9. Ratty
    Joined: Apr 20, 2005
    Posts: 445

    Ratty
    Member

    Good to see the Four Door's up and running Phil , no pic's of that gorgeous interior ? What do you mean you're not running it in the Meltdown , afraid you'll beat Glen's record :confused:

    Glad Mark's got his gearing sorted too , might get to see that lovely little car at a few more runs now .

    I'm just clearing space for the arrival of the Roadster , feeling like a kid on Christmas Eve :D

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Ah the interior. At some point in the past, a colour blind trimmer used a hardy, bright, gold(ish) material probably reserved for coaches and old cinemas. We've christened it "Odeon Shag" for want of a less descriptive term. The kinda colour that goes with.... nothing.

    Didn't say I wasn't running - just that I'll probably take my sandwiches and flask incase I get a little peckish at the 1/8th....
     
  11. Just replaced the sheet metal on the roadster.

    [​IMG]

    This ex. industrial 'A' engine has turned up at a Model 'T' specialist here in the UK.
    Notice the early cast iron Mallory, proper side drive and my favourite the striaght back factory exhaust manifold!

    [​IMG]

    Finally got things moving with the Riley 2-port. I'll get some pictures up when I get home.
     
  12. SUHRsc
    Joined: Sep 27, 2005
    Posts: 5,078

    SUHRsc
    Member

    didn't work on my car as much as i drove it last month
    finally got the carbs to work ok with the hood on
    the car still needs a total tear down and rebuild to sort out all the problems but i wanted to get it running ok for storage for the winter as i need the bay its in for another project right now
    i did have it over 100 though....102-105 by figuring from a friend on a harley....boy my speedometer is off!!
    and i wasn't near full throttle, it just got pretty hairy darting around on the back road...gotta get out on the highway and do it i think
    still waiting on some carb internals to show up to fool with them a bit more but lowering the floats helped ALOT for now
    the new local 4 banger guy has his car getting close to complettion...he's short cutting to get tags on it by the end of the year but its coming along pretty nice...
    its a cast iron miller schofield head on an A block, counterbalanced, 3/4 cam, hooked to a 39 ford tranny and a mitchel overdrive
    he has a webber carb on it now but he bought some 97's and 2 thomas intakes at hershey...so they'll be on soon
    the car is a 31 roadster with a 2" Z'd frame and a dropped a axle
    once he gets some 40 wheels and biasplies and whatnot it will be a really cool car
    did i mention that he's 73!!!
    i cant wait for the central PA banger races...
    think my cyclone flathead B can take him????
    Zach
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Phil,

    Will we ever see Mark in the Meltdown with his Avon?
     
  14. Y'never know. But like me, he finds the straight bits boring...
     
  15. Artiki
    Joined: Feb 17, 2004
    Posts: 1,998

    Artiki
    Member
    from Brum...

    Which car is the 2-port going on to, Clark? Have you bought that industrial engine? What's the light brown 'stuff' around the timing cover area?
     
  16. Neil had three of those, fresh out of the container when we went to the T club auction last month.
    The brown stuff? That's mud Darren. You really should get out into the country sometime....
     
  17. Haven't bought any but would really like the exhaust off one.

    The 2-port will be going on a 'B' engine, haven't any plans to put it in a car.

    The flathead will stay a flathead and be "tweaked" this winter.

    The 2-port may end up in the roadster while the flathead is out.
     
  18. buschandbusch
    Joined: Jan 11, 2006
    Posts: 1,260

    buschandbusch
    Member
    from Reno, NV

    wow, you guys have been really cranking- evrything looks great! I've just been enjoying the fall weather, and taking advantage of the fact that my car is all in one piece for the longest period since I got it. Put about 500 miles on it the past month :D

    been working on too many other projects to start another on the coupe, but I have a lot of stuff ready to go on when it gets too cold and wet to drive.

    I've been stashing away a little extra $$$ here and there for a Riley OHV, we'll see if I get Scrooged on my Christmas bonus this year......
     
  19. Artiki
    Joined: Feb 17, 2004
    Posts: 1,998

    Artiki
    Member
    from Brum...

    Don't got mud like that in these parts......
     
  20. All three had those exhaust manifolds and they were all very heavily welded. Couldn't tell if they were original, or rewelded standard ones.
     
  21. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,683

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    What is the world coming to...the English are amassing all the world's banger goodies, the Norwegians have secretly acquired all useful flathead speed parts, we're gonna be left with nothing but Sbarus her...
    So let me start a sub-thread:
    Banger Bibliography!!
    This stuff is in your library at Dewey number 1-2-4-3!

    These are the books that I feel every A-B nut must own for cultural literacy, and a few others as well. Please add in your favorites.

    Absolute musts:
    These books are all available in reprint from the Model A parts places, though I disdain to to touch any but originals myself...

    1. Model A Service Bulletins. All the basics, straight from Ford. Be sure to use index, as some things did change over the years. If you have an extra few books, there's a full-sized replica edition, nicer than the normal little paperback.
    2. Page's Model A book. Try to get a 1931 edition. The later ones with V8 coverage added are nice extras, but the Model A section has been cut down some in these.
    3. 1932 Ford Service bulletins for the Model B basic manual, also available in repro. After 1932, Ford just about stopped mentioning the bangers in service bulletins.

    Modern stuff: Also readily available from parts houses.
    The "How to Restore Your Model A" series, 5 paperback volumes. All together, these provide decently illustrated hands-on overhaul info on all majow parts, plus some info on top coverings, interior, body work, and so on.
    Cheap and useful.
    There are three carb books out there now:
    Moller, inexpensive and very good pamphlet covering Zenith A and B, Tilly.
    Biggar-Reheis book, more expensive, verydamngood illustrations on B and A, good tool info, very impressive book.
    Pargeter book, good but more on resto detail issues than mechanics.
    Dyke's manual reprint--excellent little compact manual to fit your glove box. Shame that banger cars don't seem to have glove boxes...
    Model A engine rebuilding book--fair, somewhat useful
    Generator-starter book--excellent, thorough.

    Websites of great worth:
    Marco's Model A Barnyard, http://www.abarnyard.com/
    Marco may be the most knowledgable Model A guru on the planet for stock vehicles, and is an excellent engineer/mechanic. When he answers a question over on the Fordbarn website, the answer is definitive and also well illustrated and documented.
    Vince's Model A&B Garage: http://idisk.mac.com/forever4/Public/index.htm#assorted
    Vince is another scholar, trying to really pin down the details of how it all works and why.
    Ahooga.com and Fordbarn.com both have excellent discussion groups.
    Tip for an instant education: Fire up the ahooga archived sections, and just read everything by gurus Marco, Vince Falter, Brent, and maybe Mike Flanagan, the crazed machinist/Mark Twain of our times.
    Recently, Marco and Vince/Forever4 pulled up stakes and went to Fordbarn; search your topic in the search feature, then just read the replies from those guys.
    Wheww. Fingers hurt. Boss back from meeting. Over and out.
     
  22. SUHRsc
    Joined: Sep 27, 2005
    Posts: 5,078

    SUHRsc
    Member

     
  23. Ratty
    Joined: Apr 20, 2005
    Posts: 445

    Ratty
    Member

    Bruce , just been lent a copy of Page's book by a mate (Cheers Rottenpop !) and have to say its a great read . Cheers for those other leads too ;-)
     
  24. I'll take a few pictures at the weekend, Bruce - show you how close you are!

    Cheers for the list - I seem to have everything for T's and Flathead V8's; just nothing in between!
     
  25. UKAde
    Joined: Nov 13, 2002
    Posts: 502

    UKAde
    Member
    from Oxford UK

    well the A has finaly got a complet new set of valve springs ,, so hopefully it's brealing spring problem should have done that in the first place , rather than change one, doh

    and I have a new flathead project,, a 1926 Amilcar it came to me with a bad clutch and an oil leak from the mag drive ,, i had the body off and rewired it cured the problems now the bugger wont start
    so I have been doing a few other jobs so it should be up and running in the next couple of weeks pics on webshots
    oh it's bigger than the Austin's 750cc it nearly 1200cc i love my little cars
     

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  26. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,683

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    Addendum on parts book: Best single one to have is the readily available late 1932 book, covering A and B stuff thoroughly. If you want more, get the '28-48 one to show interchange with later cars and maybe one of the A ones of approximately the vintage of the A's you have.
    I'm a nutcase on '28-32 parts books; Have early and late USA, full sets of Canadian and British, Australian, New Zealand, a Danish one, and German. British is the strangest, with several different carb versions and the F series engines adding variety.
     
  27. Ok, here's the 2-port pictures.

    I've stripped it bare to improve on whats there and this is what I've found.

    The castings seem to have the least amount of machining possible to make them workable straight out the box.
    The combustion chambers have the roof and outer edge machined only leaving a portion as raw casting. The Lion heads are the same.
    To blend the combustion chambers is going to need a large removal of material which is really going to screw up the compression ratio.

    [​IMG]

    You can see in this picture where the seats have been machined and no more, causing a half and half situation in the ports.
    This has also caused some very nasty (From a performance point of view) sharp edges.

    [​IMG]

    Looking down the port you can see the extensive port divider and the very tall narrow passage leading to the inlet valves. Remember that there is two valves each side of that divider so each port is supplying 4 valves. Quite a restrictive area.
    Ports are as cast finish.

    [​IMG]

    A picture of the valves. Stainless, stock size with modern keepers.

    [​IMG]

    Don't get me wrong with this posting, I'm not putting the head down. It will run great straight out the box but if you want that extra its going to need extensive work, just like any factory head would.

    One fault I have found, which can be seen if you look very closely, is every valve seat has been machined to a different depth making the valves sit at different heights. A couple have been machined so wide that they have almost broke through the seat.

    The question is now, do I match all the seats to the lowest or have them taken out and renewed.
     
  28. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,683

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    Lowering the valves is generally undesireable for flow, and from what you said I'm guessing lowest are very low indeed...plus, you have a single-angle seat which of course needs work anyhow...so I'm thinking you need to get the wallet back out and install hard seats, using a shop willing to juggle seat thicknesses (if more than one depth available or machineable) and depths of cuts carefully to equalize heights. You say "taken out"...are there hard seats already? Can't see. If so, mabe that size is available in more than one thickness and you can have thicker ones ground to custom levels needed.
    A possibly worthwhile trick in blending chambers is to make a cut after actual seat and transition angles are cut with a stone larger than valves cut to a very flat angle to quickly relieve the area where valve seat meets the wall.
     
  29. Actually - forgot to say, but my fordor is an English RHD sedan. Complete with the gutless small bore 14.9 engine. If I don't sell it, I'll pull the head to use when I put the bigger engine in. Factory hi-compression head!
    1930 would make it a Manchester or Cork assembled car?

    Someone has "installed" a quaint little corner shelf beneath the petrol tank I could use as a bookshelf though....
     
  30. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,683

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    "im trying to keep what i can stateside"

    Me too also...I've got the entire known supply of diamond B's in my basement, guarded by my gigantic Sonoran Mastiff to keep the English invaders at bay...and I inveigled 4ever4 into sending a nifty British deuce luggage rack over here...and I've got a cooler than cool British Deuce steering wheel from Ernie...hmmm...I seem to be slowly JOINING the exodus!
     

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