Heya Im planning a project at the moment, and have a question or two. The rivets i see on old aircraft, How could they be recreated? i dont want to use pop rivets, that just looks tacky
can't you just use real rivits? about the only drawback is you have to be able to get behind the panel to "buck" or back up the rivit to peen it tight. i put in a BUNCH of rivits back in my army helicopter days. nothin' to it. just use steel rivits in steel and aluminum rivits in aluminum. whatcha' buildin' ??
Use real rivets! Check out the website for Aircraft Spruce. Another great site is Big Flats Rivet Co.
They're called solid rivets, and they're sold all over, like McMaster.com. AircraftSpruce.com is also a good source for them, along with all kinds of tools for installing them. For most of the riveting I do, I use 1/8" diameter rivets. I lay them out exactly like you would pop rivets, meaning I drill holes for them and cleco the panels together first. Then I put a chamfer on each hole in order to get the rivet to be countersunk. Put the rivet in the hole, hold something hard and heavy (like a dolly) over the rivet head, and hit the bottom of the rivet. A rivet set is really helpful in both setting the rivet, and for making a nice mushroom on the backside. There are all kinds of other tools that make solid riveting even easier, but none of them are really necessary. --Matt
And you must get the book "nuts, bolts, and fasteners and plumbing" by carroll Smith. Really thorough coverage by a racer from the days of aluminum tub racecars.
[ QUOTE ] And you must get the book "nuts, bolts, and fasteners and plumbing" by carroll Smith. Really thorough coverage by a racer from the days of aluminum tub racecars. [/ QUOTE ] That's an excellent recommendation. (Hi Bruce!) Along with Carroll Smith's other great books: "Tune to Win" "Engineer to Win" and "Prepare to Win" the fastener book is lovingly referred to as "Screw to Win"
Yo, DR--Are you going to Carlisle or Hershey? Time to train the kid to recognize goodies...and neat old toy cars that cost more than your driver... I have a ton of olde road race hotrod stuff for you, and the LZ ignition stuff, which has increased...And some ideas, like maybe 1935 brakes.
<font color="green"> Tell me what you want, diameters and grip ranges, hard or soft. I'll get you some. RASHY </font>
I saw a rod in a car mag a while back. The author praised the builder for his ingenious use of bolts that looked like rivets. The first thing I thought was why didnt he just use rivets? One more source is www.rivetsinstock.com. Its hard to beat the real thing. A little trivia: The technical term for a POP rivet is the blind rivet. It was invented for use in areas where you couldnt get in behind to set a rivet.
[ QUOTE ] I saw a rod in a car mag a while back. The author praised the builder for his ingenious use of bolts that looked like rivets. The first thing I thought was why didnt he just use rivets? One more source is www.rivetsinstock.com. Its hard to beat the real thing. I saw the same article about the locker screws and then found a yard sale full of new nuts and bolts. bought all his locker bolts for 25 cents a pound, got the market cornered but it would take twice as long to tighten all those bolts as it would to install rivets! but I've got them in bulk haha
[ QUOTE ] I saw a rod in a car mag a while back. The author praised the builder for his ingenious use of bolts that looked like rivets. [/ QUOTE ] That was Rogue's raw steel RPU. I loved that car. A recent owner changed some details on it for the worse, and it was available on Ebay not so long ago.
Man was I glad to see this post as I was just thinking of asking the same questions. Having looked at some of the rivet tools on sites listed here I have a few questions: The guns look like they are a type of air hammer, so do you basically put the rivet through the hole, place some form of dolly (for lack of a better word) against the head of the rivet then use the rivet gun on the shank of the rivet and "hammer"/peen it? The guns look like the come with multiple dies for different size rivets?
There is a difference between an air chisel/hammer and a rivet gun. However, riviet guns can be expensive so use what ya got. The bucked end of a rivet is supposed to be 1.5x diameter of the rivet in height. Does that make sense? (This is after you buck the rivet and it is mushroomed out.) The tail should be parallel to the material and flat, not angled to one side. It should be smooth and have no smiley faces or cuts in the rivet. Steel rivets are very hard and can be a booger to buck. The old steel rivets you see on Ford pickup beds etc. used to be shot in reverse manner....the rivet head would be backed up and the tail would be what they shot. Of course the steel rivets used to be heated as well. Aluminum rivets are not heated. Hope this helps?????
the guns are good for factory work or large hard rivits but you have more control and get a nicer job peening by hand with a hammer. it's no more work than driving nails. actually it's easier.
[ QUOTE ] Man was I glad to see this post as I was just thinking of asking the same questions. Having looked at some of the rivet tools on sites listed here I have a few questions: The guns look like they are a type of air hammer, so do you basically put the rivet through the hole, place some form of dolly (for lack of a better word) against the head of the rivet then use the rivet gun on the shank of the rivet and "hammer"/peen it? The guns look like the come with multiple dies for different size rivets? [/ QUOTE ] No, the bucking bar goes on the small end of the rivet and the gun is used on the head. There are different "sets" for different size rivets.
You put the air hammer or rivet gun on the top (head) of the rivet. The tail sticks through the hole. You put the bucking bar/ dolly on the tail. When you hit the trigger, the rivet gun bounces the dolley and it hammers the tail into a completed rivet. It seems totally backwards, using the rivet gun on the pretty, visible part and the dolly on the back side, but that's how it works. If you've ever heard about our fierce hail storms here in Texas, just think about the airplanes that get repaired too. I spent many many hours of my life shooting rivets on them.
Careful using a air hammer for riveting they hit harder and faster you can get by using a regulator turned down. It is better using a gun set up for driving rivets a 4X gun is a pretty good all around gun. Use a good solid bucking bar on the tail end and practice before you start on your project. Make sure you use the right sized drill bit on your holes. Sizing -3 is 3/32" drill bit or #40, -4 is 1/8" drill or #30, -5 is a 5/32" drill or a #21, -6 is a 3/16" or a #10, -8 is a 1/4" Length is measured in 32nds -2 = 2/32", -3 = 3/32" and so on. Take a look at the rivet heads they are marked as to alloys stay away from a raised dot (D in the P/N) or double dash (DD in the P/N) those are what are known as Ice Box rivets they should be annealed before driving and have to be kept cold or the anealing goes away. Look for the dimple (AD in the P/N) they are ment to be driven right out of the box no mark usally means they are 1100 aluminum drives real easy but not too strong. steel rivets are normally not marked but you can tell them by weight. Monels (Stainless) are very strong but are damn expensive. Also I forgot to mention have about 1 1/2 to 2 x of the diameter sticking through the hole this should give you a pretty nice bucktail (bucking bar side) and dont hammer them too flat you should have bucktail around 1/2 of original diameter sticking up when you are finished.
Then you can do something like this. Sorry for the tiny picture. I forgot to resize when I pulled it off ebay. This rpu is for sale again now.
The Jalopy Journal
