AV8 Hop Up: 5 Speed + Flathead = Performance (Fresh Updates 7th Dec)

Its when he starts screamin Ahh canna give yea anny more Cap'n, she's gona blew that I start to worry.

Danny

 

Killer post guys ....keep it comin !

Rat

 

You guys have to much fun over there!
Say Hi to Andrew ( Drewfus) for me.

 

G'day mate.

Good to see the progress guys, and interesting to see what's involved in the 'adaption' of the kit, not to pass blame, but rather how to deal with it. As mentioned by the others, from a 'drivers perspective', the 5 speed is a great thing, allowing a good, userfriendly spread of ratio's.

As a comparison, I take it that you're using the 'stronger' Supra box, as Im using the Celica unit, which positions the shifter just beautiful, and whilst its said to be not as strong, I'm confident that it will put up a good fight....Note: this will be behind a 8ba with the pressed steel bellhousing.

Keep at it, keen to see your progress.

Cheers,

Drewfus

 

Hey Drewfus,

The work required to fit the kit is in someways a little disappointing but its not really a big deal. I'll have a chat to Mike when its all done and just let him know what happened, the rest is up to him. I'm more interested in passing on information on the potential pitfalls and how to get around them.

I know that Rat Bastard used the Celica behind his whilst FlatOz used the Supra. The Supra box can be upto 15kg lighter then the Celica, depending on which models exactly are used. It also comes with a lower first gear ratio which will help with my tallish (3.54) rear end ratio and big tyres. Basically, it was the fact that FlatOz had done it and it worked out well that I went with the Supra. Oh and the way he started driving his Deuce after he put it in made me think the Supra strength was cheep insurace!

Danny

 

Man, the steel cased box is holdin up well behind the blown thing so far !! So Drewfus, you should be OK mate !!

Cheers

Rat

 

Hey Rat,

Doesnt need to be too strong to hold up behind the blown head gasket!!!!

Danny

 

Have just been doing some research, with most people recommending the 9 1/2" clutch and pressure plate...

AV8's tip from the TECH files " A 9-1/2-inch clutch is all that's needed. An 11-inch clutch is not only too heavy, it's unnecessarily stiff. "

Have you asked/spoken with Mike as to what components designed to be used?

Curious,

Drewfus

 

Looks good Danny, I'll have to come down to rancho deluxe one day and check it all out. Keep us posted-

Luke

 

do you want to see what my tired motor with a 4/71 did to an EXPENSIVE race clutch of 9 1/2 inches,

it wasnt pretty...

 

Machine shop? PHHT you guys are wimps. Never heard of an intererence fit? You could have just run the starter for a while and it would have machined itself a new home!

BTW, I can vouch for the Celica boxes.... I have had one in my Morris Minor for years and its always held up to the torque really well LOL

Adam F.

 

Hi Guys,

With the adapter not back from the machine shop and the weather running at 40+ degrees over the weeekned, progress slowed a little.

Most of Friday (I had the day off woohoo) was spent with a can of degreaser and a hose making sure things were going to be clean enough to reassemble. The flywheel and pressure plate surfaces were lightly scuffed and cleaned with Prepsol.






One potential problem to look out for: here we have the supra snout...



The throw out bearing sleeve that comes as part of the kit



With the throwout bearing pushing thingamagiga.



Throwout bearing...



Trouble afoot. Looks like with the shorter tube, the throwout bearing can travel too far and cock slightly on the end. FlatOz had this issue, and knowing in advance I had a new sleeve machined up which I can cut to fit.





Extra pieces I purchased for the trans swap so far: new throwout bearing, longer shaft and a bearing for the snout.



The complete assembly



Purchased a new Toyota clutch. You can get these up to 11 inches (not 9.5), I ordered this in from the local ABS but Bursons will stock also. Ask them to look under the Dyna section in the parts book. I ended up going for 10.5 inches.



Yup, clears the pressure plate



Oh fuck! Another fucking thing that wont work!!!!



The warning on the back of the clutch expressly states: Do not use this clutch for racing, high performance driving, HOT RODDING, or any situation blah blah. Looks like I will have to abandon the Supra swap right here!



Ahh well, thats about the extent of the progress so far. As my mentor, Lowsquire likes to impart a little wisdom every day, a parable, a rule, a lesson, something to stick in my mind during my journey towards mechanical competance.

Todays lesson was, always use the right tool for the job at hand

 

If he got to drink the beer, then it was the right tool for the job.

Binga

 

but its the wrong beer!

 

LOL!!!!!

 

You fucking fag. As long as the beer has got beer in it, then I'm OK with it.

Nice work Dan/Ben. How many times did you sweep the floor in the time it took to get that far with the gearbox?

 

Looking good fella's!

Outback

 

I think you mean as long as the BOTTLE has beer in it, see you are a VB swilling philistine.

 

good tech post fellas! you guys are funny! I'd bet your fun to drink with....gauging your expresso foam....lol

 

Visitors
Beer

Say no more.

Updates on the install please boys.


Binga

 

It's funny how as a rule, Aussies don't drink the most famous Aussie beer, Foster's. And it seems all you Victorians steer clear of the beer that you invented!

I'm quite happy to drink Swan Lager, our local swill.

Bloody beer snobs!

No, I don't drink VB or Foster's!!!

 

when i was in the airforce, when we refueled the Austrailian jets that landed, they'd bring us a six pack of Victoria Bitter beer...that stuff was bitter. lol

 

Don't let that beer snob Flatoz tell ya that we don't drink VB over here 'cause it's pretty popular among the rodders over here.

We drink it when we go Visiting mates or have Visitors over hence Visitors Beer, the good beer is for when we don't have to share.LOL

Binga

 

FUCK THAT! I'll drink VB in a heartbeat {....right now I'm sitting at work and I've got 12 Crownies sitting in front of me....another 12 Cascades in the fridge}. About the only stuff I won't touch is any cold-filtered sh-t or the Toohey's reds/blues. The Kiwis have a nasty local brew too....DB. Give that a wide berth. It's almost got swatted out of my hands when I went to drink it there....they were right, it's shit!!

 

Hi Mate,

The adapter will be back from the machine shop today, which is excellent as x-mass is creeping up and I still need a new tailshaft made up (the old one is cactus). Basically with the adapter back and machined, we have everything we need to install the box. Then its time to measure whats needed for the new tailshaft and get that made. In the mean time we can make the trans mounts, get the speedo cable made up etc etc. All the fiddy little things.

Danny

 

Festive celebrations starting early?!

Carlton Draught or Coopers on tap, mmmmmmmmm or any other free beer is fine with me, just don't ever touch Tooheys or GEELONG BITTER...
I've never been that crook before or maybe it was the amount

 

this a great,

thanks for posting it

you know we ran into clearance problems on an 11" clutch, with stock ford
parts, seems that if you don't have the truck bellhousing it will hit on the some of the passenger ones.

At any rate, what year toyotas are you guys getting these trannies from?

are they models that are in the U.S as well? and I am assuming that there are no ford and chevy t-5's down under?

you guys are building some great early style hot rods.

good luck with the shop and the tranny install

 

Hey Mate,

The kit adapter is specifically designed to be used with the truck bellhousing on 8BA style motors. On the earlier ones, you dont need the truck adapter, it bolts straight to the bellhousing. With the truck adapter, we could have comfortably used an 11" clutch, the only issue was the pressure plate finger tips (is this what they're called?) contacting the inside of the adapter. A small bevel towards the top will fix this.

This is the info I have on the box's from Australia. I know they you guys did receive Toyota Supra cars but the gear box comes behind all sorts of wierd things, like diesel trucks, van etc.

Wxx Series Toyota Gearboxes



*W series gearboxes have a separate bellhousing.

*Different bellhousings are used to connect a W50 gearbox to an R or M series engine.

*Different bellhousings are used to connect a W55 gearbox to an R or T series engine.

*Alloy W5# gearboxes are interchangeable with each other.

*Alloy and steel W5# gearboxes are not interchangeable with each other.

*W50 bellhousings do not fit the W55 gearbox and vice versa.

*W55 bellhousings do fit the W56, W57 and W58 gearboxes and vice versa.

*All W## gearboxes after 1970 had the same output spline as the A## automatic gearboxes.

18R Toyota Four-Speed:



This is a heavy-duty 4spd that was used in 4 and 6 cylinder motors in 18R Coronas, Mark 2 Coronas, 6 cylinder Cressidas and Crowns. They're available with two different stick positions. The one in Pic 3 has the kickback shift level and the other version has the lever 2.5 inches further forward. They're very strong and won't break behind a 6. A lot of people use them behind V8's quite successfully and, even if you do break one in such an application, they can be found at wreckers for as low as $50, which makes it economical to simply remove the damaged one and fit a replacement. Some people scoff at these boxes because they were used behind 4 cylinder engines, but a closer examination reveals they're ridiculously over-engineered for such an application. If your clutch ever fails, one of these boxes will get you home quite happily as long as you don't need reverse.

Toyota Five-Speed:



This is the same as the 4 spd version but you'll note that the rear housing, which contains fifth and reverse, is bulkier. All the details about the position of the shifter, the tailshaft yoke and the bolt-up pattern are the same as for the 4 spd. In the trade, they're commonly known as a steel-case Toyota.

They came on 18R, or 2 litre engines in hatchback or mustang lookalike Celicas. They were also used in 6 cylinder Coronas and imported Crowns and in these applications they were fitted with a heavier-duty needle roller bearing in the front cluster. Unfortunately, you can't tell if this is the case until you pull it apart, but if you do and you find the roller bearing, you know the box has been in a 6 cylinder, a turbo model, or a diesel. Hopefully, you'll find a ball bearing which indicates that is was fitted to a NA 4 cylinder and has had much less power put through it.

Finding the lower rated box and refitting it with the stronger roller bearing is ideal. They come in 3 first gear ratios. Versions fitted to the 18RG engines, which were Yamaha headed engines, were fitted with a 3.0:1 ratio, which is very high. These versions are fairly rare but can still be found if you look hard enough. There are also 3.25:1 and 3.5:1 versions available. As with the 4 spd, people fit them to V8's, but its not a great idea because, unlike the 4 spd, they're quite expensive ($400). A better choice is the Supra, which is stronger and doesn't cost much more.

Toyota Supra Five-Speed:



These boxes first appeared in Australiain 1984 in the 4 cylinder Corona. They were also fitted to Celicas and, obviously, Supras. Both 4s and 6s had exactly the same version, so everything said about using 4 cylinder Toyota 5 spd units applies to the Supra box. There was at least 4 ratios in them, starting with an extremely low 4.0:1, which was fitted to commercial vehicles, following by 3.7, 3.5 and 3.28. They have the same length input shafts as the other Toyotas and are virtually interchangeable with the steel-case. However, they do have a different bolt pattern. As is commonly known, these boxes are extremely strong. They're much stronger than a steel-caseToyota. Straight from a wreckers, this box will cost about $500, but a stripped and checked version is about $700.

There is another, extremely rare and much stronger, version of this box that was fitted to a 3.0 litre Twin Turbo. Its about half as big again as a normal Supra but apart from that it looks the same. It has been known to handle in excess of 550HP with no difficulties. If you can find one, you'll have to pay something like $1500-$2000, but they are very rare.

The Supras' shifter also came in 4 different locations:

The above transmissions feature a range of gearshift positions as standard. Measured from the front face of the transmission these are : 18, 20, 21, 21.5 inches.

Gear Box Ratios, Years, Weight and Application Specs

Please click on the attached pdf for a printable table of all box years, cars they came in, gear ratios, weights and HP rateings as per their original application.

Cheers!

Danny

 

Hi Guys,

The story so far...

Ok so we have the adapter back from the machine shop. We gave the engineer the orginal bellhousing and the adapter so he could machine the adapter to perfectly replicate the orginal taper to the top. Adapter done. We know everything lines up and works together, next stop test installation.

Dont worry, this is more of a mockup step so there will be detailed installation pics and tech coming soon.

Looks good in there. Test install of the completely assembled unit.







Shifter location is just about perfect. Ben's relocation of the shifter housing meant its sits perfectly infront of the seat and not two inches under it!



The layout of the cross members meant we can't install the trans from beneath. The original hole made by Ben proved insufficient to the task. So once again some more subtle trimming was performed.



The left overs from the floor liposuction.



Nylon piece machined in the laste to act as a guide for the clutch install etc etc





Vintage lathe...



Santa came early this year...wonder if I've been naughty or nice.



Hmm, looks like I've been NASTY!!!



Cam bearings to match.



Mmm, look at all that shiny. I like shiny.



Re-ground lobes. There better be .375' lift on those bad boys and hmm... lets say 282` of duration.


Keep checking back, more updates to follow tommorow. Just waiting for the tail shaft to get made up today.

Danny

 

looking good dan and ben.

you wont know yourself or the car when its done. well worth it.