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History Auto racing 1894-1942

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kurtis, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,436

    The37Kid
    Member

    ^^^THREE guys that we can't afford to loose. Bob
     
  2. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,825

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska



    If it weren't for the cyclecar thread ,
    I'd have given up on this place long ago...
     
  3. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 7,027

    noboD
    Member

    Don't do that, Bob. I'd have nothing to look forward to every day.
     
  4. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 770

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    Hey, I never even knew that one existed! Tells you everything about this place... :rolleyes:

    THanks for pointing this out - will keep me busy for a while!!
     
    The37Kid likes this.
  5. jroberts
    Joined: Oct 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,584

    jroberts
    Member

    [​IMG]
    Studebakers at the 1932 Indianapolis 500

    [​IMG]
    Studebakers at the 1933 Indianapolis 500
     
    63fdsnr likes this.
  6. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 1,990

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    It's the month of May and you guys are bitching over a petty first world problem!!
    Sheesh....
     
  7. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 1,990

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    Gaston Chevrolet and John Bresnahan


    13174220_10206494610985150_19224902097442532_n.jpg
     
    63fdsnr likes this.
  8. LeeStohr
    Joined: Oct 21, 2009
    Posts: 108

    LeeStohr
    Member
    from Virginia

    Hi Michael,
    I find that car groups on Facebook have some of the best photos on the net. Try this one for cyclecars - https://www.facebook.com/groups/lecyclecaristebelge/?ref=bookmarks
    There are groups on vintage bikes, JAP engines, auto books, restorations, pretty much anything and everything. Fair warning, if you go there you will burn up hours and hours of what remains of your life.
     
  9. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 1,990

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

  10. carl s
    Joined: Mar 22, 2008
    Posts: 741

    carl s
    Member
    from Indio, CA

    I have the following info and commentary on this photo:
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/91981316@N06/22390777414/in/album-72157632997077988/
    Boyle Team 10th & Capital Indianapolis IN (In front of newly opened Merz Engineering) Stutz building off to right.

    A few blocks south of their future home at 1701 Gent.
    Title Portrait of the Boyle Racing Team, 1928
    Date 1928
    Description Members of the Boyle racing team, including Billy Arnold, Fred Comer, Dave Evans, and Cliff Woodbury, stand with their Boyle Specials on a residential street.
    Person(s) Depicted Arnold, Richard William, 1905-1976
    Comer, Fred, 1893-1928
    Evans, Dave, 1898-1974
    Woodbury, Cliff, 1894-1984
    Subject Automobiles, Racing; Automobile racing drivers; Automobile mechanics; Portraits, Group
    Type still image; negatives; b&w
    Item ID 1928-22694c-Boyle136.tif
    Owning Institution Indianapolis Motor Speedway
    Usage Rights <a href="http://www.ulib.iupui.edu/copyright" rel="nofollow">www.ulib.iupui.edu/copyright</a>
    Have Questions? Indianapolis Motor Speedway Official Trackside Photo Shop
    4790 West 16th St.
    Indianapolis, Indiana 46222
    Ph: (317) 492-6771
    Fax: (317) 492-6470
    photos@brickyard.com
    <a href="http://www.indianapolismotorspeedway.com" rel="nofollow">www.indianapolismotorspeedway.com</a>
    IMS Photo Number 22694c
    Digital Publisher IUPUI University Library
    Digital Collection Indianapolis Motor Speedway Image Collection
    Digital Date 2013-07-03
    Digital Specifications Konica Minolta PS7000C MKII, Archive view: 8-Bit Greyscale 2400 dpi tiff, Full view: 600 dpi jpg 2000
    Year 1928

    Comment from Boyle Racing Headquarters
    "Dennis and Carl The photo is in front of Merz Engineering 1928 at the corner of 10th and Capitol Ave. In the backround is the Stutz Bldg and the top of the Sutton and Gartner building which was wrecked to expand the Stutz facilities.
    This was the first year Merz had an independent shop. The previous year he was employed by Harry Stutz at HCS.
    It is very interesting that the Boyle Race team including Mike Boyle is on the sidewalk apron in front of Merz's Shop...... obviously there was a relationship."

    Merz Engineering 1928 - 937 N. Capitol Av
    Indy Chamber of Commerce "New Industry"
    <a href="http://www.digitalindy.org/cdm/compoundobject/collection/icc/id/69/rec/2" rel="nofollow">www.digitalindy.org/cdm/compoundobject/collection/icc/id/...</a>

    Charlie Merz
    <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Merz" rel="nofollow">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Merz</a>
    Post driving career[edit]

    In 1927 at age 39 Charlie Merz founded Merz Engineering and served as its president until his retirement in 1946. The company, under the leadership of Miklos Sperling, sponsored an Indy 500 team from 1950 to 1955. Merz served as Chief Steward for the Indianapolis 500, the top official of the race, from 1935 through 1939.

    Charlie Merz died in his home just outside Indianapolis at age 64 on July 8, 1952. He is buried at Crown Hill Cemetery in Indianapolis.[1]
     
    kurtis likes this.
  11. bugatti7
    Joined: Jan 7, 2013
    Posts: 46

    bugatti7
    Member
    from Germany

    kurtis likes this.
  12. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 1,990

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    Does anyone know the name of Cedrino's mechanic at the 1908 Daytona-Ormond Speed Trials?

    cedfiat (2).jpg
     
  13. ZigZagZ
    Joined: Oct 24, 2011
    Posts: 240

    ZigZagZ
    Member
    from LA

    Hey Kurtis,
    Cedrino's mechanician was his brother-in- law, Carlo Capra. This data comes from the Brooklyn Daily Eagle published 5/30/08 (see attached article & photo).

    P.S. Has anyone ever told you this is a GREAT thread?

    ZZZ
    5-30-08 Blyn Daily Eagle a.jpg 5-30-08 Blyn Daily Eagle b.jpg
     
    carl s and kurtis like this.
  14. SteveLines
    Joined: Jun 15, 2007
    Posts: 119

    SteveLines
    Member
    from England

    I have come across this picture a number of times showing "Jimmie Costa in his Fiat".

    Could anyone tell me more about Jimmie and his car please, and when and where it ran? Was it really a Fiat, and if so, what type?

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 264

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

    The late Don Radbruch suggested that 'Jimmie Costa of Turin' was probably a nom de course for a slightly better-known American driver competing in mid-Western meetings run by IMCA in the early 1920s, speculating that supposedly 'foreign' drivers were probably likely to attract bigger crowds (Dirt Track Auto Racing, 1919-1941: A Pictorial History, p81). To put that in context, bear in mind that five of the first eight Indy 500 winners were Europeans. As late as 1928 'Costa' was racing a Blitzen Benz in Florida, and was then (highly improbably) described as '1918 Italian Road Race Champion' (ibid p251). There are a few newspaper reports around from the 1920-21 period which call him 'Wild Jimmy' or even 'Wop', which sound like typical promoters' publicity BS.

    I'd also beg leave to doubt that the car had ever seen Turin, Italy. Even Turin GA and Turin NY are pretty unlikely.
     
    ebtm3 likes this.
  16. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 770

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    By 1921, Alex Sloan had at least two Fiats running on the IMCA circuit, but it's very difficult to tell the BS from the PR with this organization, and so I have no real idea where the cars came from. Obviously, the engine has been placed in a more modern chassis, built mid-teens from the looks. And yes, Jimmie Costa was almost certainly 100 % American, and maybe that wasn't his real name. I've also seen him listed as Tony Costi from Turin. Where did he run? I'm not even sure he ever really raced - all I have is four entries, one each in Montana, Michigan, Georgia and Missouri, but no sign of him ever competing. Perhaps he was a "PR Special", hired for his good looks and Italian name. Maybe he rode rodeo between races - with the IMCA, EVERYTHING is possible!!
     
  17. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 264

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

    The original source of this picture appears to be the Missouri State Archive, Michael. They date it to 1921, which seems to fit with Don's research, and Google finds a few reports of Costa apparently racing a Fiat in 1920. However, from what I can tell these seem to be mostly previews of county fairs etc where they're listing who's coming - with the other names being one or more of the 'exotic Europeans' on which Don cast doubt.

    https://www.sos.mo.gov/archives/exhibits/statefair/10

    The questions here of course are "after 'burning out a bearing' did Costa get his car fixed in time to compete?" and "did Ernie Fosnaugh and his Minerva arrive?" Or were they simply announced as not being present and thus disappoint the inhabitants of South Bend? I like the juxtaposition of the articles, suggesting that their bigger-engined cars would somehow be more interesting to watch over 5 miles than the 500-milers at Indy! Sloan BS indeed!

    https://newspapers.library.in.gov/cgi-bin/indiana?a=d&d=SBNT19200527.1.4
     
  18. SteveLines
    Joined: Jun 15, 2007
    Posts: 119

    SteveLines
    Member
    from England

    Interesting! Thank you gentlemen!
     
  19. Track Rod
    Joined: Dec 29, 2010
    Posts: 16

    Track Rod
    Member

    According to a local newspaper account, "Jimmie Costa of Turin, Italy" driving a "Hudson Special" tied with Mark Jenkins of Des Moines, Iowa in a Stutz for the 4th fastest lap of the 10 drivers who took time trials in an IMCA race promoted by Ralph Hankinson at the West Side Racetrack in Wichita, KS on Oct. 9, 1919. Costa then finished 4th of the 9 cars in the second 4-lap heat race which was won by George Clark. Costa then started the 20-lap "Sweepstakes" but was not listed among the finishers. That race was also won by George Clark.
     
  20. bugatti7
    Joined: Jan 7, 2013
    Posts: 46

    bugatti7
    Member
    from Germany

    a very nice picture

    [​IMG]
     
  21. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,436

    The37Kid
    Member

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yes!. I never knew speed jacks were that old. Bob
     
  22. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 264

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

  23. ZigZagZ
    Joined: Oct 24, 2011
    Posts: 240

    ZigZagZ
    Member
    from LA

  24. ZigZagZ
    Joined: Oct 24, 2011
    Posts: 240

    ZigZagZ
    Member
    from LA

  25. Hey guys! just saw a thread over The Hamb showing a J engine! Think someone liked these pictures from a car built in my country!!


    1465760394071.jpg 1465760408423.jpg 1465760425990.jpg 1465760435651.jpg

    Sent from my XT1068 using H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  26. bugatti7
    Joined: Jan 7, 2013
    Posts: 46

    bugatti7
    Member
    from Germany

    Hello everyone
    again a question: is the photo from Vanderbilt cup race in 1936, or somewhere else? Thanks

    [​IMG]
     
    63fdsnr likes this.
  27. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 770

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    Definitely Roosevelt Raceway and the Vanderbilt Cup race.
     
  28. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,825

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

  29. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 2,860

    jimdillon
    Member

    Bob a nice picture of Oldfield in the Delage in the pits at Indy (1916). I believe this was in practice. The car finished in 5th place. Not too long after they pulled the original engine and replaced it with a Miller four. This was Oldfield's last race at Indy as a driver. He retired before the next Indy classic which resumed in 1919 after the war. Pretty nice picture for sure.
     
    banjeaux bob likes this.
  30. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,825

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

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