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History Auto racing 1894-1942

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kurtis, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,288

    The37Kid
    Member

    WOW! Thank you Carl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Recognized that car right away and went to my CT News collection and found this photo and info. Car ran DO HAL at the time and was clocked at 122.95 MPH. NOTICE: I want to find this car and restore it, I'm not related to Bob Swanson, we just share the same name. Bob
     

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  2. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,801

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    Yes,thank you Carl.


    BanjeauX Bob
     
  3. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 770

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    Great find, thank you Carl!!

    :) :) :) :)

    Yes, I thought I remembered us discussing its fate. I never really considered the possibility of it returning to Midget size, so I probably never mentioned that I was talking about Sprint Car appearances.

    At a guess, I'd say that's a new frame, but difficult to be sure. The frame in itself is not that expensive an item, so as a "rule of thumb" I mostly expect a new frame in any conversion, be that a "stretch" or a "shrink" job (nothing to do with psychatry! :D). But some conversions were definitely very "cost-conscious", and with good enough pictures, you can often spot it.
     
  4. ZigZagZ
    Joined: Oct 24, 2011
    Posts: 240

    ZigZagZ
    Member
    from LA

    Cool link Carl, wonderful period photos!

    Ralph DePalma and a number of other old timers were in attendance at the 1936 Vanderbilt Cup, for an "Old Timers Race". I have seen a few pictures of DePalma, Mulford, and Chevrolet, but haven't found any details on the race they competed in. Would anyone have any details on this Old Timers event?
     

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  5. Don Capps
    Joined: Feb 13, 2010
    Posts: 111

    Don Capps
    Member

    Works both ways, furball.

    Nope. That is where I thought this was headed. Assuming that Nuvolari, De Palma, and Swanson actually met, further assuming that Nuvolari was complimentary regarding Swanson's driving (which is not an unreasonable assumption), there is (1) no citation or supporting material for this presented by Finn, (2) given that the source appears to be an unnamed American newspaper reporter, either much was lost in the translation or the reporter resorted to a bit of hyperbole, which was not unusual for sports reporters of the era, and (3) there seems to be no other corroboration for this in any of the research conducted regarding the race.

    Here is the information from the Technical Committee:
    The Hogan Special, program No. 51, was entered by Dan F. Hogan. The engine was an Offenhauser with a displacement of 104 cubic inches (3 1/16" x 3 1/2") using a Linnert carb, Bosch ignition, Champion spark plugs, Weight was given as 1,100 pounds; body width 18" at 15" ahead of the rear axle; wheelbase given as 85"; thread 51" front and rear; fuel tank capacity of 15 gallons, oil tank capacity of 5 gallons.

    Qualified on second day for 10th position.

    Lap times:
    1st lap: 3 min 38.62 sec/ 65.858 mph
    2nd lap: 3 min 36.64 sec/ 66.470 mph
    3rd lap: 3 min 37.20 sec/ 66.300 mph
    4th lap: 3 min 36.80 sec/ 66.420 mph
    5th lap: 3 min 36.27 sec/ 66.583 mph
    Total: 18 min 05.54 sec/ 66.326 mph

    Flagged after 23 laps
     
  6. Don Capps
    Joined: Feb 13, 2010
    Posts: 111

    Don Capps
    Member

    It was a one lap exhibition, not a race.
     
  7. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 770

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    Hey, why are you keeping the driver's ID a secret? It's a very young Harry Hartz, destined to become one of the greatest American drivers of all time!
     
  8. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,801

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    I'd sure like to find that Mercer for $1200 !
     
  9. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 770

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    No, but I know his face - I've seen it a hundred times. That's definitely him. I didn't even know all that stuff about the car number and the look of the car, I immediately recognized his face.
     
  10. memaerobilia
    Joined: Mar 24, 2004
    Posts: 191

    memaerobilia
    Member

    here is a photo of Hartz' # 22, Junior Racing Association car, that has some significant differences. Such as body work mounted above the frame, instead of to side of frame, the steering wheel at very different angle, and the forward chain sprocket mount is in a squared housing etc. and the tail, and more... etc etc) But they may be earlier, later, or modified versions of same car. Would need to see a higher res of the photo above, to compare the frame etc, which seems to be a lot lighter in the photo in previous post? and the shell etc

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2014
  11. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 7,827

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    Looks like that's Hartz in the Vic Mac car to me.
     

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  12. 29AVEE8
    Joined: Jun 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,384

    29AVEE8
    Member

    Gentlemen.

    Don't think I have seen this photo on this thread before. I robbed it from "The History of Los Angeles" thread. I am thinking it must be DePalma at Santa Monica Vanderbilt 1914 as I have seen him in the Number 12 attributed to that race. Note the intricate crossarm supports on the utility poles.
     

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  13. ttpete
    Joined: Mar 21, 2013
    Posts: 177

    ttpete
    Member
    from SE MI

    Those are trolley wires for the Red Car Interurban line.
     
  14. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,801

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    In the second image it looks like the engine sit to left of the drive outside of the bodywork....very much like this Schaasche.
     

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  15. carl s
    Joined: Mar 22, 2008
    Posts: 741

    carl s
    Member
    from Indio, CA

    Posted at theoldmotor.com
    http://theoldmotor.com/?p=113493


    Here are links to 3 articles to add to the cycle car – baby car data base and inquiry:

    Dec 25, 1913 NY Times
    AAA Contest Board to Encourage Cycle Car Races.

    http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F50614FE3A5B13738DDDAC0A94DA415B838DF1D3

    Oct., 1915 Motor vol 25 p.54
    Champions of Tomorrow in the Making

    http://books.google.com/books?id=80...z Junior Racing Association of America&f=true
    General info on the cars and new branch of the sport – racing for boys. Recently organized Junior Racing Association of America raising a crop of future champions. The cars the boys build loosely follow the lines of racing favorites such as Stutz, Mercer, Peugeot, Mercedes, Sunbeam, Buick and Delage.
    Champion driver Harry Hartz offers to build copies of his baby Mercer for $250.

    Construction follows two general lines; the first class includes cars with 20” wheel and are the smallest; the second class includes those with 28” wheels.
    Note: ‘Frames of Ash”
    Harry Hartz’ baby Mercer #22 is shown with several details on running gear and there is a photo of Harry’s teammate Clark Brown, in his baby Mercer #21.

    May 3, 1917 Motor Age vol 31
    The Junior Racing Car – Its History and Construction – Part 1 by Harry Hartz

    http://books.google.com/books?id=xF... Junior Racing Association of America&f=false

    In the center of p.29 is a head on photo of Harry in a car #22 in which he won his first event at Culver City.
    (This could very well be the same car – a bit worse for wear – shown in this photo posted at The Old Motor -
    The Vic-Mac Garage Baby Vanderbilt Cup Racing Car)
    http://theoldmotor.com/?p=113493
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2014
  16. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,801

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    Article about Gwenda Stewart from October 1933 via Isabelle.Full picture from Lee Stohr(post#4513 this thread).Front drive detail pic shamelessly stolen from elsewhere on the web.
     

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  17. carl s
    Joined: Mar 22, 2008
    Posts: 741

    carl s
    Member
    from Indio, CA

    A final note about the Vic-Mac Garage and the three Machris Brothers; Alfred, George and Victor: they started off selling gasoline door to door and within a few years -under the leadership of George-incorporated as The Wilshire Oil Co valued at 1 Mil in 1920.
    [​IMG]

     
  18. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,801

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

  19. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 264

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

    Pedantic note: Grand Prix de l'ACF. The 1935 Grand Prix de France was a minor affair, run by the Union Motocycliste de France. :)

    That's one of the many motor sport films from the Italian Archivio Luce. Some of them are Italian originals, but others are redubs or recuts of film from people like Pathé, Wochenschau, Movietone etc etc. I have found a few where they have used different cuts, sometimes including sequences which aren't in the British, French, German or US originals.
     
  20. saacha
    Joined: Mar 20, 2011
    Posts: 161

    saacha
    Member
    from cloud 9

    No, not an accident, the Alfa team changing a gear box on Lehoux car at Dieppe. ( Grand Rix Racing by George Monkhouse)
     

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  21. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,288

    The37Kid
    Member

    The Jack McAfee car with a Studebaker Champion six from the February 1950 issue of Hot Rod.
     

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  22. ZigZagZ
    Joined: Oct 24, 2011
    Posts: 240

    ZigZagZ
    Member
    from LA

    Not sure if this is a re-post. Below is a 1934 promotional film from Firestone. Lots of big names here, and it has sound. It even has a brief interview of Harry Miller.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOP-oOdAZGY
     
  23. Sig's granddaughter
    Joined: Feb 10, 2014
    Posts: 1

    Sig's granddaughter
    Member
    from Florida

    Hi, not sure where to post this but if anyone is interested....The Halifax Historical Society presents......Please join us on February 19th for two public screenings of this remarkable film at the Southeastern Museum of Photography on the Daytona State College campus, 1200 International Speedway Blvd, Daytona Beach, Fl. The theatre holds 90. Shows are at 1:30pm and 7:30pm. Seating is limited, and tickets are not required. Doors open 15 minutes before showtime. This is a Oral History of Beach Racing in Volusia County from 1903-1958, the Birthplace of racing. My self, Linda Haugdahl Schainberg, granddaughter of Sig and my father Sig Haugdahl Jr. were interviewed for the documentary which included my grandfather Sig Haugdahl, the driver of the world Famous Wisconsin Special. If you want more info go to facebook: hoppin rattlesnakes.
     
  24. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 6,978

    noboD
    Member

    I wish it were closer, I'd be there.
     
  25. gnichols
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 10,575

    gnichols
    Member
    from Tampa, FL

    Very interesting. About how long is the film? Is this film part of an ongoing series and, if so, how many have been produced so far? Gary
     
  26. saacha
    Joined: Mar 20, 2011
    Posts: 161

    saacha
    Member
    from cloud 9

    And here is our friend with the car before it went racing
     

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  27. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 1,990

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    I thought Michael Ferner would've posted something by now.

    There was a Ralph Baker that drove Whistling Billy during 1907. Obviously this fellow in the photo is much too young to be that Ralph Baker.
     
  28. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 770

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    Thanks for the confidence, but I'll have to pass on this one. :(
     
  29. 29AVEE8
    Joined: Jun 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,384

    29AVEE8
    Member


    Big letter "E" on the hill on the left could be a clue...Escondido perhaps.
     
  30. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 264

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

    FWIW, Ancestry only has two Ralph W Bakers listed in California at that sort of time: one born November 1st 1909, died March 19th 2004. On the 1930 census he's a 'yacht operator' in Long Beach, in 1940 he's a 'fisherman' in Los Angeles.

    The other was born about 1902 and died in 1968. 1920 census has him in Chico City, Butte and listed as a truck driver. He's still there in 1930, by which time he's a tractor salesman: could be our man?
     

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