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History Auto racing 1894-1942

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kurtis, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. carl s
    Joined: Mar 22, 2008
    Posts: 741

    carl s
    Member
    from Indio, CA

    Macoco was perhaps emboldened in his criticism with the knowledge of his order placed with Harry Miller
    From Michael Ferner's oldracingcars.info
    see sect 2203-Y the 1922 Miller/Hill #3 car


    http://www.oldracingcars.info/marques/indy/miller/1921-2/
     
  2. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 784

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    The first??? What about Mercer, fifteen years earlier? Bugatti even copied the type designation!!!

    I don't question your final analysis, but contrary to popular (mis)conception, Ettore Bugatti was a man totally devoid of original ideas. His mythical stature in much of today's literature is a complete and utter joke!!
     
  3. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 784

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    Oh, I retract the use of the word "totally". He was (apparently) the first to design a "dragster style" driving position in his 1903 de Dietrich. Let's say, he was totally devoid of original ideas that worked!!
     
  4. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 784

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    Thanks for (always) championing my writings, Carl, but I have to admit that some of my conjectures in this particular chapter have proved to be wrong. I need to find the time to (finally) update this site!

    Apologies!
     
  5. UK RUSS 1960 OLDS
    Joined: Jul 23, 2009
    Posts: 1,244

    UK RUSS 1960 OLDS
    Member

    Hi Gary,

    Glad you enjoyed it, here is another one you might like.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zji_woRTls

    Cheers.

    Russ.
     
  6. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 264

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

    Heh. I'd forgotten the Mercer, Michael. But then they weren't exactly common this side of the pond - or anywhere outside the US really. Make that "first man in Europe" then. :p

    But like I said - good PR! The infamous "1000 wins in a year" advert being the best/worst example.
     
  7. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,935

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    [​IMG]

    After the recent episode of WHERE THEY RACED, which covered both the Santa Monica and Corona Road races, this postcard was found in our archives. It gives you a very good perspective on just how hard this race was on drivers and their machines.

    On a round course such as with this one was, the driver is constantly right on the edge and working extremely hard to keep the car in control. On a more typical oval circuit the straightalways at least gave the driver and the riding mechanic a short respite twice each lap. Corona was a tough course and its history was filled with tragic crashes. Tune in next week and learn more about both races in Part 4.
     
  8. txtom
    Joined: Sep 23, 2008
    Posts: 39

    txtom
    Member

    Some friends on a modeling forum are trying to identify this track, and maybe the car. Possibly the upper middle U.S., Indiana, Kentucky, or thereabouts. 1940's. Any help is appreciated.
     

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  9. Professor Fate
    Joined: Sep 13, 2007
    Posts: 146

    Professor Fate
    Member
    from the bay

    I feel bad for poor Ralph, misspelling his name for all those year. You should take up the torch and have history redacted, you know, all those pesky period news news articles, race programs, movie reels...it would be a lot of work, but you seem to be the man for the job!! good luck and keep us updated.
     
  10. Don Capps
    Joined: Feb 13, 2010
    Posts: 111

    Don Capps
    Member

    Apparently, unlike you, I have actually looked at a number of examples of his signature over his career and life, it is inevitably "De Palma" -- two words. Gary Doyle and I had at least one or two conversations that touched directly on this point as he was researching and writing his book, Ralph De Palma, Gentleman Champion (2005). Somehow, I think that I would go with Gary rather than you on this, especially given that Gary did far more than enough actual research to get the name correct of the subject he was writing about.

    As for your point about that I "should take up the torch and have history redacted," given how much nonsense that has been passed off as automobile racing's "history" some of us have to do it since many here and elsewhere or either too lazy or lack the skills to determine what historical reality actually was.
     
  11. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 1,989

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    errhmmm..... ..since many here and elsewhere or either too lazy or lack....:p:D

    I'm sure i am guilty of misspelling De Palma's name on occasion or maybe I just didn't hit the space key. These things happen.
     
  12. Don Capps
    Joined: Feb 13, 2010
    Posts: 111

    Don Capps
    Member

    It was supposed to be "...here or elsewhere are either too lazy..."

    No excuse. I had to run to a men's breakfast this morning and fingers and brain not in synch.

    The larger point is that there is much from the past regarding automobile racing that was taken at face value as being true that has turned out to be utter and complete twaddle. When I began to actually examine a number of aspects of what was being generally accepted as automobile racing history -- myself being included among those who simply accepted it as is, it was quite a surprise to find out how much I believed that did not reflect historical reality. As a historian, I was bit chastened by this and then started digging, finding much more the more I dug. In general, no one let a good the facts get in the way of what seemed to be good story, even when the most rudimentary fact-checking would have shown the story to be either an exaggeration or, to be polite, that liberties were taken with the facts.
     
  13. ZigZagZ
    Joined: Oct 24, 2011
    Posts: 243

    ZigZagZ
    Member
    from LA

    Here's Ralph's WW2 draft card. As an enthusiast, (I wouldn't call myself a historian per se), I enjoy locating original documents. The autographs are unique, and the data they contain can be very interesting, and lead to even more information. How many folks here knew that Ralph worked for Ranger Aircraft?
     

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  14. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Lets go to back to talking ''Race Cars'' now

    You want to talk spelling? Open another thread
     
  15. onelung
    Joined: Feb 19, 2010
    Posts: 181

    onelung
    Member
    from Adelaide

  16. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 28,062

    The37Kid
    Member

    Ever know a biker to bitch about a hyphen in Harley Davidson, or the lack of one? Bob :rolleyes:
     
  17. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 6,038

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    Apologies if these have been posted before.
     

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  18. Don Capps
    Joined: Feb 13, 2010
    Posts: 111

    Don Capps
    Member

    Given the innumerable times that the even contemporary sources managed to misspell Ralph De Palma's name, apparently there is a need for a spelling lesson once in awhile. Then again, one senses that really was not the point of the comment in the first place.
     
  19. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    You made your point and now it's just a waste of space

    AND Honestly has little or no point repeating over and over.
     
  20. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 28,062

    The37Kid
    Member

    Thanks Bob, I've never see those Christie front drive photos before. They are two different cars, wonder if the 1907 GP car was a third or one of these upgraded? Bob
     
  21. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 6,038

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    Bob,they were unlabeled.So,I don't exactly know which cars they are.

    BanjeauX Bob
     
  22. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 7,611

    noboD
    Member

    A men.
     
  23. psalt
    Joined: Apr 17, 2010
    Posts: 101

    psalt
    Member
    from nyc

    They are two different cars, wonder if the 1907 GP car was a third or one of these upgraded?

    I think the first is in NYC in 1906 and the second in 1908. The photos of the 1907 GP car do not have that front strut brace. Does anyone have a photo of the OHC engine in the 1909 car ? I've only found a rough drawing.

    Paul
     
  24. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 1,989

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    Paul, it would be neat if there were more photos of Walter Christie's design. A quick look at Lee Stohr's website also finds an undetailed side-on drawing of the engine from the 1909 racer. www.stohrdesign.com/1/category/1909%20christie%20racer/1.html

    I've come to realise if Lee hasn't got it there's next to no chance somebody else has it.
     
  25. psalt
    Joined: Apr 17, 2010
    Posts: 101

    psalt
    Member
    from nyc

    Paul, it would be neat if there were more photos of Walter Christie's design.


    My favorite Christie shot in midtown NYC. Having driven powerful cars in NYC for 30 years, I'm sure I'd have no trouble getting away from the cabs at the lights with a 1200 cu in engine and no doors.
     

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  26. psalt
    Joined: Apr 17, 2010
    Posts: 101

    psalt
    Member
    from nyc

    630 ft/lbs and 1600 lbs. And look, pushrods.....
     

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  27. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Goggle Youtude "Auto Union GP" to see these cars running racing and drifting.
     
  28. psalt
    Joined: Apr 17, 2010
    Posts: 101

    psalt
    Member
    from nyc

    They are pretty. Kind of like a 1923 MB Tropfenwagen with a Fiat 806 engine. I am curious how Porsche copied the 806 when it only ran one race.
     
  29. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 6,038

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    Paul,They all drink from the same cup.
     
  30. toml24
    Joined: Sep 23, 2009
    Posts: 1,620

    toml24
    Member

    August 21, 1938. The first "Jalopy" race in California was at Southern Ascot in Southgate, CA. Car #27 is Don Farmer, who looks to be having a great time on the dusty infield B-track . Jalopy racing was not born on the West coast. The concept was imported from the mid-west.
     

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