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Technical Anyone swedge lug studs anymore?!

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Pete Poling, Jan 20, 2020.

  1. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,047

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Yes....read my post, #11 and @KenC post #30 above.

    Ray
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
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  2. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 6,707

    Budget36
    Member

    Seems like that would be the way to go;)
     
  3. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,047

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    I seem to recall the term "swedge" also being used in relation to this retention process.

    Ray
     
  4. Professor Fate.
    Joined: Oct 26, 2012
    Posts: 80

    Professor Fate.
    Member

    You can always grind the head off from inside the drum and drive them through from the inside out. Simple and effective.
     
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  5. Pete Poling
    Joined: May 1, 2016
    Posts: 103

    Pete Poling
    Member

    Thanks guys I appreciate the input! Going to look into a few of these options and will report back


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  6. arkiehotrods
    Joined: Mar 9, 2006
    Posts: 6,450

    arkiehotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Hnstray likes this.
  7. Had the issue with my Studiebakers........
     
  8. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 5,271

    sunbeam
    Member

    I have a set if you want the pay the freight both ways just tell me the size.
     
  9. nochop
    Joined: Nov 13, 2005
    Posts: 2,116

    nochop
    Member
    from norcal

    Beat em out beat em in
     
  10. seabeecmc
    Joined: Jan 28, 2005
    Posts: 1,052

    seabeecmc
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    upload_2020-1-22_8-25-29.jpeg Pete, Contrary to some bad HAMBster advice, do not beat studs in or out. Once swage is removed with 5/8" hole saw they come out quite easy. There are no serrations on the FORD studs. Use swage tool on replacement studs. Ron
     
  11. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,907

    97
    Member

    I think only a few of the posters actually know what swedged/swaged wheel studs are.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  12. 62SY4
    Joined: Oct 30, 2009
    Posts: 102

    62SY4
    Member
    from Irwin, Pa

    Agreed. I'm not claiming that you couldn't brute force the swaged studs out, but I'm not in the business of busting parts for the sake of it. Cut them out, swage the replacements in.
     
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  13. Pete Poling
    Joined: May 1, 2016
    Posts: 103

    Pete Poling
    Member

    Still scratching my head here.... I got a couple of the studs removed while waiting on the new studs to show up. I tried the two different ways, cut stud flush and drill to 3/8” then pound it out, it worked but I didn’t like doing it that way. The second way was the 5/8” hole saw way, this went easy and is probably how I’ll do the rest. [​IMG][​IMG]


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  14. Pete Poling
    Joined: May 1, 2016
    Posts: 103

    Pete Poling
    Member

  15. Pete Poling
    Joined: May 1, 2016
    Posts: 103

    Pete Poling
    Member

    So now I buy way I think is the correct studs, they are serrated and I thought I’d just pound them in and they would grip the hub and drum.... wrong...... to long[​IMG][​IMG]


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  16. Pete Poling
    Joined: May 1, 2016
    Posts: 103

    Pete Poling
    Member

    So now I’m pissed (this is about a week ago) I bite the bullet and 50 dollars later I have 5 studs and the “install tool” they show up today and I just don’t get it.... [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


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  17. Pete Poling
    Joined: May 1, 2016
    Posts: 103

    Pete Poling
    Member

    I guess my thought was there was a countersunk section on the hub? So when you press the stud in there is somewhere for the metal to go?? I still need to make the correct fixture to hold it from the back side so I can get it a press but it doesnt look right. Not to mention the blank space between the threads and the .62” shoulder of the stud??? Am I missing something here? Can anyone help point me in the right direction?!


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  18. Pete Poling
    Joined: May 1, 2016
    Posts: 103

    Pete Poling
    Member

  19. Pete Poling
    Joined: May 1, 2016
    Posts: 103

    Pete Poling
    Member

    Nothing???? Still stuck here.... sent the last set back. Going back to the drawing board to try and find a different stud.


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  20. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 2,571

    rusty valley
    Member

    its been a while since i did this, but i'll throw out some food for thought. first, the shoulder on your new stud to swedge seems to be too much material above the drum to squish. gonna take a lot to make that all go away, and i agree that if there were a counter sink area, it would work. i have never seen an nos hub or drum, so all my experience has been with the little bit of a hole left from the hole saw. it looks like you are drilling deeper than you need to in the photo, usually just a light cut in my experience. now a guess about the blank space on the stud, and only a guess, if you look at the bottom of an old ford lug nut, you will see the threads dont go all the way to the bottom. in fact the bottom is drilled slightly bigger than the thread for about .100 . then, look at an original stud and many times the shank rises higher than the surface. the oversize hole in the nut allows clearance for this. if you buy a new nut at the store they are threaded all the way thru, cheaper to make, and then the bottom 2 or 3 thread will bottom out on the stud, and you think your wheel is tight. be sure to support the head of the new stud while installing, are you using a press or a hammer? before i learned the hole saw trick i ruined a hub trying to press the studs out. bent the hub. best of luck to you
     
  21. 2935ford
    Joined: Jan 6, 2006
    Posts: 3,635

    2935ford
    Member

    I can only ad this.....that swage tool will not do the job. How do I know........I managed to get a shop to get the old Model A lug studs out w/o damaging anything. I gave them the new studs for the Model A hub/and new drums and that swage tool. When I picked the two hub/drums up after being told they were done.........some lugs are swaged Ok many are not and that swage tool is cracked at the working end at two points. The tool is not strong enough. Now I have to once again pull "new" studs out and retry. :(
     
  22. Pete Poling
    Joined: May 1, 2016
    Posts: 103

    Pete Poling
    Member

    The Swedge studs and the tool have both been sent back. I stoped in to my local Napa and we looked in their book but no luck. The original Swedged studs shoulder is .640”and they didn’t have any studs that had the correct knurl length to go through the drum first then all the way through hub without protruding. I’m going to keep looking, I may have to contact a friend with a lathe or ream the hole to a specific size.


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    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  23. Wish I would have seen this earlier. I just fixed one of theses for a friend about a month ago. Did it on a Bridgeport and after getting everything square, perpendicular and indicated, I found center on each stud, spot-faced each down to the flange and drilled and tapped 1/2-20 threads in each location. Flipped it over and spot-faced the back side just enough to clean up the surface. This give my friend the ability to screw in however long a stud he needed and then spot weld them in place so they can't loosen or back out. I know none of this helps your situation. Just showing another way to go about it.
     
  24. patina steve
    Joined: Oct 3, 2006
    Posts: 243

    patina steve
    Member

    I have tried all the ways to remove swaged studs, this is the method that has worked the best for me.

    When installing new studs in Old Ford hubs I made a tool to support the back side of the hub and drum assemble by taking a piece of pipe and grinding it at an angle to match the back of the hub with a slot so that it supports the back side completely, keeping is square to the hub and parallel around the stud, then I use a press to push out the swaged stud, be very careful to support the back side so you don't distort the hub or the brake drum.
    Use Dorman wheel studs #610-234 specs. 1/2" - 20 .621 Knurl x 1 5/8" long, drill the hub with a 39/64" drill, press in the studs, drill the brake drums stud holes to 5/8" which allows a little clearance on the brake drums around the studs, the drums a concentric on the center hole .
     
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  25. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 2,571

    rusty valley
    Member

    hey steve, you mean like this? lol! , thats what i use too. i do still make a light cut with the hole saw though IMG_0575.JPG
     
  26. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 2,400

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I replace studs all the time as I switch over to cast iron drums on the Model A's. If you are going thru this exercise and do not have cast iron drums, you might want to consider the change over. The steel ones expand when they get hot and the brakes fade as a result,
    The trick with the 5/8" hole saw to get them out worked for you. after cutting the flared, swage off, I press them out, backing them up with a simple fixture I made for the process out of pipe. You could use a deep socket, piece of pipe but back them up, even if you pound them out...
    I purchase the new studs from Snyders of Berts....depends on who I ordered other stuff from at the time. The studs you have pictured are definitely the wrong ones
    I have another fixture that is a thick metal ring that is the same diameter of the stud circle. This is a backer for the swaging process. It is on a piece of pipe that is high enough to hold the drum/hub assembly just up off the bed of the press. The swaging tool you pictured gets placed over the stud and then you jack the press against it until the shoulder of the stud flares against the drum....repeat
    I'd go dig everything out and take photos, but we just got a foot of snow and it is snowing again..
    All this said, you can talk to Randy Gross at Mel's Model A Parts and Service....he has drums, studs and he will replace for you. His turnaround is a day or two in my experience (714) 292-8660 melmodela@aol.com and he advertises on the Ford Barn...only positive experience from him

    Good luck
     
  27. GuyW
    Joined: Feb 23, 2007
    Posts: 567

    GuyW
    Member

    Lug nut threads and lug bolt threads are supposed to be a light interference fit so that the nuts don't come loose. Before I learned this, I had 8 lug nuts on a 3/4 ton Chevy truck spin off while driving on the freeway. Fortunately I eased over onto the shoulder without turning the steering wheel much, as the wheel was about to come off of the lug bolts...
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
  28. patina steve
    Joined: Oct 3, 2006
    Posts: 243

    patina steve
    Member

    Yes...................Thanks for the picture...........
     
  29. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,907

    97
    Member

    Like I said before not many posters here have any idea what , pressed in serrated modern studs vs swaged in vintage Ford studs are ..... two completely different animals. The proper swaged type studs are placed through the hubs and the drums and swaged to hold the two parts together as well as stopping the studs from turning or falling out, OR the drums moving from the correct centered position. Pressed in serrated studs will NOT do all of those jobs. Modern brake drums are held in place by the center hub and screws etc. The studs are held in place by the serrations.
    If you have No idea what you are looking at , get a professional experienced machinist to do the job... it will be cheaper and far safer in the long run. In no case will serrated press in studs work correctly for these brakes and hubs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
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  30. Pete Poling
    Joined: May 1, 2016
    Posts: 103

    Pete Poling
    Member

    IMG_5117.JPG IMG_5116.JPG IMG_5114.JPG IMG_5115.JPG

    Just a update... after ordering two different sets of studs I thought “may work” I ended up using the longer studs from a ford store for the newer drums that are thicker. This was the reasons for the washers for spacing. Ended up stick welding them in because that what I had at the time and it turned out fine. Now.... the studs were to long for my factory closed lug nuts but if you stack two 1/2”-20 nuts the height is perfect to just cut off the excess then they are the same length as the factory studs. I hope through all of this someone will see this in the future and have a few options on how to fix this issue. Thanks for the suggestions guys! Add some paint and it will all be ready to put together then on to the next problem!


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