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Anyone "lead" any more ???

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Magnum Wheel Man, Jun 22, 2012.

  1. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,940

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal


    And, ya left out cheap & requires little fi any skill to apply!:D


    Uh, '' work as well as the old stuff'' er, um different, but not better. Health wise, perhaps, but not much of an issue if you takes steps to protect yourself/others.

    Using lead cames from your leaded glass hobby probably won't yield great results. Even plumper's lead @ 50/50 lead to tin is a bitch to control on all but level/flat surfaces. The addition of tin gives a longer ''plastic state'' of control to the molten solder. This is especially helpful when soldering vertical or reverse crown areas. Ditto on your bullet ''slugs'' as these once remelted won't contain a good alloy of lead to tin.
    We use to be able to get powedered flux that contained mercury, but the " Nanny State & the fucking tree huggers'' outlawed it years ago. This product worked great, but only if used over clean, well preped metal.

    It's great he still has the ''freedom'' to do this in Albuquerque, if he did so in a shop in SoCal he'd probably be on " America's Most Wanted '' by now:rolleyes: Federal and State health & safety laws make the use of lead in most shops a serious libality:(

    " Humpty Dumpty was pushed ''
     
  2. Dog Dish Deluxe
    Joined: Dec 23, 2011
    Posts: 778

    Dog Dish Deluxe
    BANNED
    from MO.

    Lead is where it's at. When I put rockers and 1/4 panels on my car I did the seams back in lead. It's held up great while a couple other places that still are mudded are coming loose. I need to get back to work on it. Plastic filler sucks, lead kicks ass.
     
  3. Chuck Most
    Joined: May 8, 2009
    Posts: 175

    Chuck Most
    Member
    from Saskatoon

    Quality of his work, perhaps? Some insurance companies do take that into account. If a particular shop has a record of shoddy repairs under its belt, my insurance company won't pay for any work done by them, no matter how low of a price they're quoted. I know this because I breifly worked for a body shop that was on their 'shit list'. :p

    As far as plastic being half the cost in materials and labor, how are you arriving at that figure? Obviously the materials woudl be more, but labor prices aren't necessarily set in stone. There are a couple of guys still slinging lead in my area, and the prices they're charging are right in the same ballpark (give or take a few bucks) as what the bigger shops using plastic filler are charging.
     
  4. the metalsurgeon
    Joined: Apr 19, 2009
    Posts: 1,239

    the metalsurgeon
    Member
    from Denver

    To pay for someone with a skill to put lead on a versus $20 p/ h for someone to sling mud . At $16 dollars plus per stick ,thats how i figure.

    My weekly metal work blog www.themetalsurgeon.com
     
  5. DAVEO!
    Joined: Dec 4, 2011
    Posts: 291

    DAVEO!
    Member

  6. Torchie
    Joined: Apr 17, 2011
    Posts: 1,013

    Torchie
    Member

    My understanding is that the newer "non-lead" alloys that Eastwood offers is hader to work with than the old stuff.
    I remember seeing a video of Bill Hines doing some lead work and the sticks that he was using were specially made for him to a ratio of tin/lead that he likes.
    The guy that taught me to work lead in the 70's could spread it like a mom spreading peanut butter on a sandwhich. He used to be a "leader" at a GM production plant. He told me that he was the last guy to touch the body before it went into the spray booths.
     
  7. jw johnston
    Joined: Oct 16, 2011
    Posts: 106

    jw johnston
    Member

    Its pretty simple, its just all about cleaning the surface, tinning it properly and heat control. I use it on factory seams and areas they used it originally or areas that i cant axcess properly to metal finish. I think the new 'body solder' sucks. Ive had the best luck with 70/30 lead sticks with harris liquid flux. I dont really like the paste flux and tinning butter it just seams to be messier. Its definetly much more expensive than plastic filler and harder to use but is much more solid. Alot of customizers used pounds of it to shape cars, just like some use gallons of it today to shape cars and i dont see the point. Use lead and fillers sparingly only where you need it. Just my two cents.
     
  8. Normbc9
    Joined: Apr 20, 2011
    Posts: 1,123

    Normbc9
    Member

    I can attest to the shop still using lead for heavier metal vehicles. There is another in El Paso too. I live in Vacaville, CA and there is one shop here that will do it the customer wishes. But then the issues become what the Insurance Adjuster decides and then who pays for the difference. I have a original '32 Chey that has never seen Bondo.
    Normbc9
     
  9. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,247

    oj
    Member

    I've never tried the liquid flux, i'll get some.
    One really good place for lead that nobody has mention is aound the door jamb. If you have early tin where the door closes onto the body skin you can lead (inside the overlap on the door) that opening and it'll act as a cushon and prevent paint chipping.
    Where i have a miserable time is getting the trash out of the rust pits in the metal. Once sanded etc i hit it with tinning butter and wipe it when you see brownish at the edges. then i work flux into the area with a stainless brush, the nasty stuff turns black and i can't get it all out. What do you guys do.
     
  10. jw johnston
    Joined: Oct 16, 2011
    Posts: 106

    jw johnston
    Member

    Yes door jamb areas! Alot of british open cars were leaded here. Oj , ive had pretty good results with this method of preping the area: I blast the area then use a CLEAN wire wheel. Ive tired just blasting it but i dont like working on the rough surface it leaves. That gets almost all of the rust and crap out then if theres anything else i use a drill bit or scribe to get it out of the pits. Then i heat the area up apply the liquid flux and scrub it with scotch brite and a wire brush . Then heat and flux again and start the tinning process. It takes time but id rather have good adhesion and have it last another 60yrs.
     
  11. the metalsurgeon
    Joined: Apr 19, 2009
    Posts: 1,239

    the metalsurgeon
    Member
    from Denver

  12. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,247

    oj
    Member

    Yes, the blasting adds as much stuff as it cleans out. I get down as far as using a small screwdriver, torch and flux all at the same time to get the trash up to the surface. I thought i was being anal and just too stupid to buy some wipe-on wipe-off product that would get me there.
    Seems like i get my leading stuff from a company called johnston, any relation or am i misremembering. Good product, great people to deal with.
     
  13. robertsregal
    Joined: Oct 2, 2008
    Posts: 743

    robertsregal
    Member

    I did some lead work on our 57 Buick deck lid, had not done since the 70's but I still had the tools. It came back and was easier than I remembered! Give it a shot.
     
  14. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,276

    metalman
    Member

    Like I said, I don't know why they are a lead shop, doesn't make sense to me. I assume he uses it as a selling tool to get people to request his shop over another but even that could be debatable to be worth the extra cost, I really dought the insurance companies pay him any extra for it. I could see it if he did only high end cars or classics but he doesn't, just normal everyday cars on his lot.
    Funny thing, I was at his house one day and him and a buddy were doing the bodywork on his gennie steel 32 3 window. They were using plastics, go figure.
     
  15. 296ardun
    Joined: Feb 11, 2009
    Posts: 4,165

    296ardun
    Member

    I learned to use lead from an old-style body man, who said, "learn in your bare feet" Huh? But I did and the first time I let hot lead hit my feet, I realized I was doing it all wrong, torch too hot, paddle with not enough bee's wax, not enough concentration...learned quickly after that.........
     
  16. countrysquire
    Joined: Oct 9, 2007
    Posts: 163

    countrysquire
    Member

  17. the metalsurgeon
    Joined: Apr 19, 2009
    Posts: 1,239

    the metalsurgeon
    Member
    from Denver


    what was your heat source?

    i use propane personally


    my weekly metal work blog www.themetalsurgeon.com
     
  18. 1938 FORD
    Joined: Jun 7, 2011
    Posts: 4

    1938 FORD
    Member

    A great place to start for the right beginners.... paddles, wax, lead sticks, files, tinning paste, etc..... is EASTWOOD. Check them out on web or order their catalog for a starter kit.

    I got a nice CD from them when I reordered supplies. It walks you thru all the metal prep steps & using the correct shaping files, up thru finishing with a DA sander. It is a great tutorial for beginners and a refresher for us old timers who slept since we leaded the last project!

    Hope this helps you.................the results are very satisfying and really cool. Don't be disappointed if more lead ends up on your garage floor than on the panel when you first start............practice, practice, practice!

    My current lead project is 34 Tudor roof panel.
     
  19. bigdaddylove
    Joined: Jun 6, 2012
    Posts: 129

    bigdaddylove
    Member

    Not to be a dick and hijack this thread, but I have a few questions.

    Isn't lead too porous and soft to to paint over well? It seems too dense; not like sheet metal at all. But since they have been doing it for decades, it must work.

    What's the deal? Is the lead different than lead used for fishing weights? Not looking for a detailed account, just a brief primer.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  20. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,940

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

    Hey,

    As a metal, lead is actually very dense which means it does not allow moisture to pass thru it. This is a principle reason it was used in paint for years and years. As a result, metal/wood painted with lead based paints held up well to the weather.

    The" lead " once used in fishing weights contained metals other than lead. Unless the solder you're using to fill damage/seams in a panel contains a good balance of tin ( usually 30-40% ) you're gunna have big problems getting it to flow and not melt off vertical or reverse crown panels. The addition of tin to a bar of solder gives strength and workability to the solder. A bar of 100% lead would be as useless as mule cum for ''leading'' a repair!

    " Meanwhyle, back aboard The Tainted Pork ''
     
  21. Pinstriper40
    Joined: Sep 24, 2007
    Posts: 3,298

    Pinstriper40
    Member

    I leaded my headlights on my shoebox when I frenched 'em... Always fun to learn something new!
     
  22. odins701
    Joined: Aug 9, 2008
    Posts: 390

    odins701
    Member

    Thats right! Eastwood has both lead and lead free.
    http://www.eastwood.com/body-solder...le&utm_medium=Merchant-Centre&SRCCODE=1SE0756
     
  23. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,247

    oj
    Member

    One other thing that hasn't been mentioned is when you hit the lead with a vixen file you have paper around the area to catch the leavings. Keep them clean. When done you put a piece of angle iron or channel in a vise and haet the leaving to let them run into the channel and when it cools you'll have sticks of lead again. It is expensive.
     
  24. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,940

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

    Yeah, I've used ''remelted'' solder bars before, but they don't work out as well as virgin bars. There's something that changes when solder is remelted!:(
     
  25. Does that go for me too??


    Sent from my iPhone using TJJ app
     
  26. 296ardun
    Joined: Feb 11, 2009
    Posts: 4,165

    296ardun
    Member

    Used an acetlene torch, took a long time to get the flame right....propane sounds much better...

    Also did not use a mask, or anything else, knew lead is toxic, but was young and dumb....remember that lead is toxic, gets into nervous system, never leaves
     
  27. F-6Garagerat
    Joined: Apr 12, 2008
    Posts: 2,651

    F-6Garagerat
    Member

    I scored 40 sticks of Kester 70/30 at the flea market last year. I asked the guy how much they were, 50 cents a stick. I took them all.
     
  28. thunderkiss65
    Joined: Jan 6, 2008
    Posts: 122

    thunderkiss65
    Member
    from Detroit

    Local guy did this for me.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  29. looks good... i would like to learn leading....
     
  30. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    X2. Going to tackle it for the first time soon.
     

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