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A question for racers about roll bars / cages

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by gnichols, Feb 26, 2013.

  1. gnichols
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 10,969

    gnichols
    Member
    from Tampa, FL

    As you know, back in the day safety was more a matter of luck than science and many kinds of race cars and street / race cars were run at a wide variety of events - strip, lakes, road, rally, etc. racing with minimal requirements.

    Flash forward to 2013, if you were building a multi-purpose street / race car what set of rules would you use for your safety equipment requirements? SCTA? NHRA? SCCA? Or? Choosing the most restrictive / stringent might be the best way to build a car that can run about anywhere, but if one sanctioning body is SO much more restrictive or specialized, I figure that group should probably be ruled out as a venue for participation - as almost nothing short of a purpose built race car would do.

    Thoughts? Thanx, Gary
     
  2. drofdar
    Joined: Jan 2, 2008
    Posts: 172

    drofdar
    Member
    from Fresno Ca

    If you adhere to NHRA, you should be OK. But first, how fast will the car be, and is it a frame car, or uni-body? If you are slower than 10 seconds, it's not so restrictive. But still, a roll cage is required from 10:00 and faster than 135mph. From 11:00 to 11:49, you can get away with a roll bar only. Slower than 11.50, no roll bar is required. A frame car must have the bar/cage attached to the frame, a uni-body car can have the feet welded to the floor. You still have to have up to date belts, and shut off switch. Also, certified helmet and such.
     
  3. captmullette
    Joined: Oct 15, 2009
    Posts: 1,929

    captmullette
    Member

    good info that is needed...... thanks
     
  4. RPM
    Joined: Feb 5, 2005
    Posts: 204

    RPM
    Member


  5. Not true. The foot plates can be bolted on uni-body cars.

    Here are the current (2013) Roll Bar/Cage rules:

    ROLL BARS: All roll bars must be within 6” of the rear, or side, of the driver’s head, extend in height at least 3” above the driver’s helmet with the driver in normal driving position, and at least as wide as the driver’s shoulders or within 1” of the driver’s door.Must be adequately supported or cross-braced to prevent forward or lateral collapse.Braces must be of the same diameter and wall thickness as the roll bar and intersect with the roll bar at a point not more than 5” from the top of the roll bar. Side-bar must be included on driver’s side. The side bar must pass the driver at a point midway between the shoulder and elbow.

    All vehicles with OEM frame must have roll bar bolted or welded to frame; installation of frame connectors on unibody cars does not constitute a frame and, therefore, it is not necessary to have the roll bar welded to the frame. Cars without frame must securely attach roll bar with 6” x 6” x .125 steel plates on top and bottom of floor bolted together with at least four 3/8” bolts and nuts. If roll bar is welded to the rocker sill area with .125” reinforcing plates, the 4 attachment bolts are not mandatory. All chrome moly welding must be done by approved TIG Heliarc process; mild steel welding may be done by MIG (wire feed) or TIG process.Welding must be free of sag and porosity. Any grinding of welds prohibited. Roll bar must be padded any where driver’s helmet may contact it while in driving position. Adequate padding must have minimum 1/4” compression.

    ROLL CAGE: All cage structures must be designed in an attempt to protect the driver from any angle, 360-degrees; cars with out inspection above driver’s legs must have a shield or device to prevent legs from protruding outside chassis. When driver is in driving position in an open bodied car, roll cage must be at least 3” in front of helmet. On front engine dragster, seat uprights and back braces must be arranged such that a flat surface passed over any two adjacent members will not contact the driver seat or containment. Additional uprights, max 30 degrees from vertical, must be added until this criteria is satisfied.

    On full bodied car, with driver in driving position, helmet must be in front of main hoop.Side bar must pass the driver at a point midway between the shoulder and elbow. All cage structures must have in their construction a cross bar for seat bracing and as the shoulder harness attachment point; cross bar must be installed no more than 4” below, and not above, the driver’s shoulders or to side brace. On any car where the stock flooring has been removed or frame is inside of the drivers seat, the roll cage must

    Incorporate a rocker or sill bar to tie the front and rear of the roll cage together.Minimum specifications: 1-5/8”OD x.083 cm, or 1-5/8”OD x.118 ms or 2”x2”x.058 box tubing. Frame rails may be a minimum of 1 5/8 x .083 cm or .118 ms or 2 x 2 x.058 cm or MS. Mild steel welding may be done by MIG or TIG process. All chromoly must employ only TIG process. Welding must be free of slag and porosity. Any grinding of welds prohibited. Additionally, roll cage must be padded anywhere the driver’s helmet may contact it while in the driving position. Swing out bars are permitted on OEM full bodied entries running 8.50 and slower. They must be designed as follows: 1 5/8 diameter x .083 cm or .118 ms connected with a minimum of 3/8 bolts or pins affixed in double shear. Clevis or sliding sleeve connections permitted. All male brackets must be a minimum of 1/8 inch with corresponding female bracket being 1/4 inch. Sliding sleeves must have a minimum of 2 inch engagement at the connection.

    Chrome plating of roll cage prohibited on all entries running 7.50 or quicker 1/4 mile, or on entries that want a certification that is within that respective SFI specs E.T. range.A dash bar and rocker sill bar are mandatory on all entries running 150 mph or quicker or if the OEM firewall has been modified in excess of 1 square foot for transmission removal. Minimum specifications: 1-1/4” x .058cm, or 1-1/4” x .118ms.

    Head guards or helmet bars must be installed on all entries presented for certification under SFI specifications 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.5, 2.6, 2.7, 10.1 and 10.2. The minimum specification is 1 inch X .058 cm. See appropriate SFI specification for all full bodied entries 8.49 or quicker 1/4 mile. Chassis certifications are mandatory on all entries running 9.00 or quicker 1/4 mile, or 6.00 or quicker 1/8 mile or on any vehicle that exceeds 150 mph.

    These are IHRA but are pretty much, word for word, the same.
     
  6. Littleman
    Joined: Aug 25, 2004
    Posts: 2,619

    Littleman
    Alliance Member
    from OHIO, USA

    Keep in mind......if you crash on the track and your head hits the cage and or roll bar.....your wearing a helmet to protect your melon.......You drive the same car on the street....and someone plows into you or something happens and your head hits the bars......its going to hurt and or kill you.......your not wearing a helmet while driving on the street.........Just sayin......some cages and roll bars can hurt you in a street accident....sure anything can happen......My head is real close my main hoop in my Model A Pickup....which is an 8 point roll bar I fabbed for when I was racing it 99% of the time...now it s back to street duty.......I think about it everytime I jump in that thing and dial fire..........Littleman
     
  7. Also remember.....

    You could die crossing the street.
     
  8. Littleman
    Joined: Aug 25, 2004
    Posts: 2,619

    Littleman
    Alliance Member
    from OHIO, USA

    Thats why I wrote...''sure anything can happen''............If I was worried about crossing the street..........I would not be building what I am currently........hee hee he.......In the military...I used to volunteer to jump experimental parachutes w/ no reserve @ 400'.........so what ever you do...never listen to me.......but on a serious note....I knew someone that lost their life when their head hit their roll bar many years ago during a street accident...and the accident was not very violent, he was wearing the 3'' lap belt but not the shoulder straps like when he was racing........Littleman
     
  9. I Drag
    Joined: Apr 11, 2007
    Posts: 884

    I Drag
    Member

    I cant speak for SCCA but NHRA is pretty strict, as Waddayacare' said. Id go for that.

    Littleman, you have some good padding on that rollbar, right?
     
  10. finishline
    Joined: Nov 24, 2011
    Posts: 19

    finishline
    Member

    go to the track on a test and tune day. lets see how fast your car goes. if your faster then 11.50 they will give you the boot. then you can pm me and i will help you out.
     
  11. RidgeRunner
    Joined: Feb 9, 2007
    Posts: 897

    RidgeRunner
    Member
    from Western MA

    Land Speed Racing has some of the strictest requirements, for wall thickness in particular. Build per SCTA regs [ECTA and LTA are close to the exact same] and you should be good to go most anywhere.

    Keep in mind requirements of the various organizations are only minimums for their various classes. Usually no harm in over building to cover running bigger power at higher speeds and different venues in the future. Do your homework - obtain, read and reread current rule books from all the organizations you plan to or think you may run under.

    Ed
     
  12. Beau
    Joined: Jul 2, 2009
    Posts: 1,883

    Beau
    Member

  13. gnichols
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 10,969

    gnichols
    Member
    from Tampa, FL

    Greatly appreciate the advice and suggestions, gents. Don't stop now! As for me, it would be a frame car and more than likely not fast enough to require a cage. But I'd add the pipe to put one in if I could. A roll bar would be going in, regardless. Gary
     
  14. gnichols
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 10,969

    gnichols
    Member
    from Tampa, FL

    I hear you. After high school I had a used Healey 100-6 that had been a club racer. It had this huge 3" dia roll bar WAY to close to my noggin. Thankfully I was never in a wreck, but the first time I cracked my head on it, it hurt SO bad... and I was just leaning back in the seat to get out my wallet! This was about 1967, and I'm not sure anyone had even thought of roll bar padding back then. But I was proud of that hoop, painted it a nice bright candy red (to match my blood?). Gary
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2013
  15. ago
    Joined: Oct 12, 2005
    Posts: 2,199

    ago
    Member
    from pgh. pa.

    cracked my head on it it hurt SO bad.
    Did you have any lasting affects from that ?


    Ago
     
  16. lht
    Joined: Jan 18, 2013
    Posts: 243

    lht
    Member

    i'd look into a drivers side swing out or run bar down low gets to be a pain gettin in and out
     
  17. gnichols
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 10,969

    gnichols
    Member
    from Tampa, FL

    Not sure. LOL. Gary
     
  18. tikiwagon13
    Joined: Feb 23, 2011
    Posts: 373

    tikiwagon13
    Member

    One of the issues you will run into building a "multi-purpose" race car is there are different configurations for different types of racing. Drag racing will have different safety concerns than road racing which will be different than oval track racing. I have run into this a couple of times with guys that have bought older stock cars and wanted to go road racing, we had to make some modidifications to the tube frames to fit the rules. If you try and build a car to do everything, you will end up with a car that will do nothing well.
     
  19. Sure did!

    Look, he's still fartin' around with cars AND wanting to go faster! :D
     
  20. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,153

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    Put a bar or cage in a DD street car and your insurance company sees it , they can drop you or put you on High Ri$k
     

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