Hello! Finally got a chance to drop the 440 into my '65 Fury III to replace the tired out 383. The car is an original big block car, so I figured that things would go smoothly. Not the case. After getting the conversion motor mounts from Schumacher, which required drilling and tapping the block, and working out the oil pan clearance issues, I dropped a shitload of money on a set of TTI headers specifically for my '65 big block C body that were supposed to fit perfectly. Not the case. After pulling the torsion bar to get in the PS header, I found that I have serious interference issues with the idler arm (see pics) and the bellhousing. I checked TTI's website and found that their recommended fix for steering clearance issues is to slot out the motor mounts and move the motor back about an inch, which, of course, would require me to pull the engine again. However, it also doesn't appear as if 1" will solve my problem(s). My next steps are to remove the motor mounts to see if I can modify them in any way (vs. the motor mounting stanchions welded to the frame) to move the motor back, which will partially resolve the clearance issue. I'll also have to notch out the bellhousing to allow the header flange to lie flush against the head. I'm thinking that I'll have to dimple (or dent) the header tube in order to get the necessary clearance. I'd rather not do that, but I don't see what other choices I have at this point. Has anyone dealt with this issue, and if so, how did you solve it? Looking at the car, I could heat and bend the idler arm, but honestly, that kinda scares me. Should I even consider the possibility? I've heard different POVs about denting header tubes...some say it will kill performance, other say that you can get away with it, and you won't feel any difference. I'm not looking forward to re-pulling the engine, especially to compensate for stupidly expensive headers that were "application specific" for my car. Chris
Well, they do say this in their listing "Engine mounts may require modification when stock pitman arm or idler arm interferes with header" What bellhousing do you have, should fit stock one but Lakewood type requires notching? AS for denting - watch this
I am confused. Why didn't the 383 mounts work on the 440? Does the drivers side engine bracket wrap around to the front of the block on that car like a '65 Chrysler would??
I put some of those on a Road Runner when I installed a 426 Hemi and they fit like shit. When I called them they told there was something wrong with my car.
Hotroddon - Yes, they do state that, and I did find the directions. However, it doesn't appear as if their suggested 1" will work. I was also able to gain a little clearance by raising the tail of the transmission about 1/2. Hopefully between that and modifying the motor mounts I will be able to make it work. I have a stock bellhousing. I called their tech line and the guy said that it was not uncommon to have to notch the bellhousing. Thanks for the heads up, TTI. Gerrys - Yes, the headers were ID'd as headers for a '65 C body with a big block RB motor. The only dimension the tech advised I check was from the center of the crank bolt to the top of the crossmember. He said that it should be 3 1/2", and if it was lower, it may cause fitment issues that could be fixed by raising the motor. Mine was about 4", so it's already "raised" based on their specs. Alphabet Soup - '65 C bodies have a different big block engine mounts than other years (it may be 65 - 66, not sure). The '65 mounts have bosses cast into the block for the DS motor mount, and later years do not have those bosses. In order to install a later big block into a '65 C body, you have to drill and tap the bosses by the oil pump casting. Schumacher makes conversion mounts, and they have pics on their website that will make the differences in the 2 blocks pretty clear. Chris
I thought that it had the d/s mount that wrapped around the front. I guess your block doesn't have the bosses. Not all of them did. I have seem people make a bracket up to the water pump, like half of an elephant ear.If yours has them, why wouldn't you just drill them and use the stock mount??
Alphabet - Yes, the original 383 did have the mounts that wrapped around the front, but the new 440 is a '70 motor, so it did not have the necessary bosses for the '65 mount. The replacement/conversion mounts also wrap around the front, but they use the 2 round bosses that are adjacent (on the front of the block) to where the oil pump bolts to the block. Those 2 round bosses have to be drilled and tapped in order to accept the conversion motor mount. Chris
Got it now. Just an F.Y.I. about you header clearance issue. I worked part time for a number of years at a shop that did a lot of front ends on drag cars. We have heated and bent a lot of pitman and idler arms to keep the toe-in correct on some Chrysler cars. That could be an option for you.
I don't get the whole modify the motor mounts deal to start with the B/B and the B/RB should use the same motor mounts the deck height is what should be different. But I could be wrong. I have been wrong before. As for the headers themselves, the best curie can think of is to send them back and contact headmon(sp?). I have never owned a set of headmon headers that didn't fit as advertised.
...beginning to wonder if TTI tubes are made offshore....There simply is no shortage of available cars that could be used for design to make sure that the tubes actually fit. Before making serious changes to suspension or steering I'd send those things back. .
Beaner,,,,The headers you refer to are HEDMAN,,,,so simple in spelling....I agree with on their fitment.NONE better..
Well here is my input. That 383 will outrun the 440 if it's done properly. Oh yes it will. I have done that many times and won the money! Had one scare a Chevy with a 427- 425 hp 4 speed it was close but I took the money.
Not really sure if anyone actually answered the question the discussion got a little side tracked. That being said I'd dent the headers and move on. Also keep in mind if you lifted your trans tail shaft you changed your drive shaft/ u joint angles and you'll need to lift the front of the motor to put them back to correct so you don't get vibration and destroy joints.
Ok, headers are in. After notching the bellhousing by about 3/4", I had to massage the headers a bit to clear the idler arm and the tie rod link. Of course, then I found out that the 8 qt oil pan that came on the engine didn't have the proper relief for the idler arm when turned full right, so I had to pull the deep oil pan and use the original pan, which brings me back down to stock oil capacity. All told, I put in about 6 hours, took the headers in and out about 20 times. This was a learning experience for sure. Chris
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