Technical 53 Chevy SBC 350 Ticking Noise - Bad Lifters?

I have a Chevy by the Numbers book down at the shop. I'll try to stop by and check it out on my way home from school. Another thought on the rocker balls being "tight". They are a very precise fit to the stud (I'm guessing no more than 5 to 10 thousanth's), so if theyes cocktail even the slightest bit when your pulling up on the rocker, their going to hang up. I usually find grabbing the rocker from underneath with two fingers on either side of the rocker ball, and holding the rocker ball into the rocker with my thumb and pull straight up on the whole thing. If it starts to bind, I just push it back down a little and then pull back up.

 

Thanks.

That is a good point but even with the rocker arms off, if I try to put just the rocker ball on the stud just for checks, even really parallel they go on quite tight on some studs and you can see markings on the stud that indicate the rocker balls were a tight fit.

 

I just double checked the stud that has that big notch. The rocker ball and late GM rocker arm with rails are perfect and show no signs of wear that would have caused the notch. It must have happened in a previous build.

I wonder if the "engine builder" left the stud because it might have broken when trying to pull it out? I'm thinking of trying to pull it out right now but am nervous about breaking it and then for sure being stuck taking the heads out.

 

You know, the rocker ball and stud interference could be your whole problem. If the ball sticks going down before you reach zero lash, it's always going to tick.

 

Thanks. I am able to tighten the nut and get the pivot balls to slide down with the force of the nut such that I can get zero lash on the pushrod and then do a 1/4 or 1/2 turn past the zero lash. This is when setting them cold at each cylinder TDC. When I try to do it running, I don't know if loosening the nut and the engine power itself can make the pivot balls slide out enough to make the rocker arms clack. I have a hard time honing in on individual valves because there is so much noise in general from the lopey sounding exhaust and the general valvetrain noise along with the ticking sound.

 

This is another (kind of) dumb question, but are you sure they didn't use Rhodes lifters in this engine? Generally, once an engines been run, it's damn near impossible to be able to push the rocker down enough to partially collapse a healthy lifter. Even with a lumpy cam, the rocker "should" clack loud enough to be easy discernable from the other engine noises when loosened within the first turn or so past the the zero lash point. One thing you never mentioned, when adjusting the valves, once you reach the zero lash point, each 1/8 to 1/4 turn tighter should make the engine start running rough because the valve will hang slightly open until the lifter bleeds down enough to allow the oil trapped under the lifter piston to be displaced. Rhodes lifters (if you're not familiar with them) have a small bleed off orifice in them that allows a small amount of oil to bleed off from under the lifter piston at idle and very low rpm to allow engines with large cams to idle smoother and boost idle vacuum (Hence why they are called "The lifters that tic"). "If" they were installed, it would explain a lot of your symptoms, but that's a pretty big unknown at this point. Do you have a scribe, or other sharp, metal tool? I would suggest scribing a line at the base of each rocker stud (especially one and four, and also any studs that are higher than the others) where it enters the stud boss in the head. That way, you can see if any of them are pulling out of the head when you run / adjust them. Also, have you tried the old mechanics trick of using a long screwdriver or extension as a stethoscope on each stud (while the car is running) to isolate which rockers are making noise? Ps. Don't allow the rocker arm to hit whatever your using as a stethoscope while your listen, it's INCREDIBLY LOUD!

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From the pictures I've noticed on the valves with problems the pushrod guide holes show wear. They are what holds every thing in line. You could drill out the holes and go to screw in studs and guide plates Id spring for replacement heads.

 

Thank you for all the insight.

I am not sure if Rhodes lifters were used, I'm not even sure how to check. The previous owner isn't going to really know.

The engine definitely ran rougher as I tightened a bit past the zero lash point. I could have sworn with all the valves at 1/4 past zero lash the engine ran much better but when I had set them all to 1/2 turn past zero lash it was running rougher. The problem is getting the zero lash point to show up with the clacking. I couldn't hone in on the clacking noise easily on some of them, and my theory of the pivot balls not sliding up may be a part of that but there is a bit of noise in general. This might be better performed by someone with experience and a good ear.

I only hear the ticking on the passenger side so I'm not sure if Rhodes lifters would even explain that since the driver side sounds quieter.

I have a razor I could probably use to make marks on the studs.

 

I went and checked all the guide holes. There are 4 that show wear and the funny D shape. The rest look good. The #1 exhaust and #1 intake (I put a late GM type rocker arm with rails), and the #4 exhaust and #4 intake. The #4 exhaust already had a late GM type rocker.

My thoughts are buy two new push rods for #4 intake and #4 exhaust and two late GM type rocker arms for #4 intake and #1 exhaust. Then just put it all back together and drive it like that for a couple of months until I have time to pull the heads and replace them.

I think changing studs is going to be risky for me if I keep the heads on the car. The #4 stud with the notch doesn't look super great but it was on there and the rocker arm and rocker pivot ball look pristine where it rides on the stud.

It's not worth it for me to spend money on studs and guide plates, rocker arms, etc without just tossing those heads and putting different ones on. Right now I'm in the middle of a house sale and I've had the car down for two months and I don't want to drag this on too much longer. Once I am settled again I have no problem pulling the heads and just replacing them altogether.

 

Sbc head swap shouldn't take but a few hours. What's this weeks BS.

Many years ago, on a Friday night my GTO started making noise, the next morning, Saturday morning I yanked the engine out of my GTO, swapped a piston with a broken skirt, put it back together, took a shower and picked my girl up for dinner ON TIME! My dad said "hey, you almost made the flat rate"


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http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/pts/4955291676.html

 

Agreed with Vicky. If there are problems with the heads, and they are limited for now to the heads, then yank the heads, you are spending a lot of time to fix something that is still going to be wrong after the fix. Plus any changes or damages from here on out can damage the short block. Don't try to rush while you have stuff going on, fix it right and fix it final.

 

looks like the press in stud is / has been pulling UP / moving up-n- out...
thus it would be lose and make the tap sound... and re adjusting it only keeps it pulling up / out...
easy fix... (replace it) and pin THAT stud...
no self adj rockers are needed...
but if there ARE some or all on there now take em OFF...

THE STUD THAT IS PULLING OUT causes the cutting of the TREE (saw the stud)
on two sides and needs replaced.

 

in the pictures IT shows DIFFERENT amounts of thread (left) ... like some have 3 full threads to the top,(above the rocker) and some have 6/7 to the top the ones with the most threads are NOT pulling studs,
the ones with hardly no threads left ARE pulling the studs.

(SOMETIMES ) strong springs will make the PRESS in studs pull out...
or cams nearing the 1/2 inch .500 lift too

 

Ideally... what's this weeks BS?

I'm selling my house, I work two jobs and I have a lot of house showings and I need to vacate during each one, sometimes with 1 hour notice and sometimes 5 minutes after starting to work on the car. My only chance to work on this thing is very late night hours on any given day after a 60 hour work week.. I'm not too thrilled to be doing very involved work on that car in spite of all that.

I am looking into getting another set of heads though. Thanks for the links.

 

Thanks, what if the engine builder didn't press them in all the way correctly or use matched studs?

For instance the #3 exhaust stud sits way lower than all the rest on the driver cylinder head, yet there is no ticking noise at all on that side.

 

The most involved (don't fuck with me I'm busy) part of a head swap is adjusting the lifters. Seems you have that part down
The heads are heavy to lift over a fender out to the block, so get some help for 10 mins.

We will run out of answers way before you use up all the excuses.
Tell the realtor "No not now, sometime during those 60 hrs you are working would be better"
99% of for sale tourers are tire kickers and window shoppers anyway. If they really want to see your house, they will wait 2 days while you fix your engine.

 

I'm going to search for heads and get a set like you suggested. I had the driver side out and had the #1 exhaust valve fixed and I put everything back together.. just feels so annoying to have to do all of it again but you are right that I'm wasting so much time trying to look for clues from a shoddy build and from wear and tear from heads that were on a different engine.

 

So I had my engine work done by a pro, and we built it, so no engine serious problems for me....but that doesnt mean I didnt have my share of heartache during my build. I went through a time where I literally hated the truck. It sat untouched for a couple months, and then I would get back to it hot and heavy....it sucked at times, I lost some blood, lots of sweat and tears of frustration no doubt.....4 yrs later I fought through it and it was worth every sec. Not just because I have a cool truck, but I have learned things you would never have learned any other way. Some of the things I thought would be the hardest turned out well, it was the easy stuff that cost me the most. To be completely honest, I am shocked at myself for making it this far, so if I can do it, anyone can.

 

Those heads, 462624
Get the worst wrap of all Chevy heads.

Put some 305 HO heads on there and you'll have a real nice running peppy great sounding custom street cruiser engine. And they are cheap, damn near free sometimes

 

Thanks, I had deleted my post because I looked up the 462624 and saw they crack a lot.

Maybe Kurt blownfuel has something he will sell after the Good Guys show ends.

 

Very possible, we'll have to see what I've got lying around. Those rebuilt heads off my Vette would be perfect, if I still have them. These are basically the ones I have, but I believe I have the 1.94" / 1.5" valved version (which isn't even listed).....

http://m.summitracing.com/parts/wrl-042670-1

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Unless those heads you have are real special to you.. they have issues for sure... just swap them in for a set of rebuilt heads, hell, keep the old ones and pay the core charge if you want.

 

Makes total sense. I don't know what would make the heads I have special... better to unload them.

 

Most real parts houses used to have them in stock, in and out the door in 15 minutes.

 

Have you moved the lifter, rocker, ball, pushrod to the other head to see if the ticking moved with them? If not, the problem is with what you didn't swap like the stud pulling out or something else. Bob

 

Thanks I didn't try that but I'd have to take the intake off to do anything with the lifters and at that point I'd rather just swap the heads out. I could swap the rocker arms and pivot balls and pushrods but not sure what good that would do. I already got two new pushrods for the #4 intake and #4 exhaust. I'm going to adjust the best I can and drive it tomorrow for a short distance just to increase my motivation again.

Unless there is something so obvious and easy that I'm not trying, I've decided to take the advice from others and just get a different set of heads.

 

If anyone is curious about the lifters here are photos I had taken when I took the intake off and driver side cylinder head. The passenger side head hadn't been touched at that point (and neither were the valves, etc). It looks like it was at #5 TDC (or near it) when I disassembled.

 

Dished pistons.
Get the smallest combustion chambered heads you can find !

 

Noted. Thanks!

 

i'd a just pined the NEW press in studs... or
changed the press in studs to SCREW in...
6 half 12 dozen ways to cure the problem.
here on the HAMB we love the pictures and the progress keep us posted...

YA know... the NEXT set of heads MAY pull those PRESS in studs too...
YA might concider (if you go the route of replacing heads) installing screw in studs and guide plates on the ( you r) next set of heads...