Projects '51 Nash Statesman engine swap

I have a super-original, 60K mile, Nash Statesman that i am considering an engine swap on. I normally go for small block Chevys (love 383 strokers) but dont really want to change steering/brakes/rear end or anything else. Should I go with a mild 350 w/auto or do GM 4.3 or Ford I-6?

Car drives great other than 85 horses and terrible shifting 3 speed make it a total turd. Any thoughts would be appreciated!

M

 

One more possibility--I can get a 258 inline 6 w/auto for free from a pal. Came out of a Gremlin he put a 360 into. Maybe thats the way to go?

 

Great Idea..........258's have decent punch....probably has a Chrysler Torqueflight behind it.......go for it!!

 

They make hop up stuff for the Nash. I have seen intakes for dual carbs, ect. You might be able to get it up to 120hp.

Any thing you mentioned should be ok.

 

That will require more than an engine swap. The drive train is closed so you'll need to swap out the rearend as well and make up a driveshaft. Shouldn't be the hardest thing in the world and will make that old dog into a new pup.

 

The Statesman has an open driveline and leaf springs, only the Ambassador (luxury model) had coil springs and torque tube like a Buick.

Before we get carried away... have you measured the engine compartment? They are quite narrow with spring pockets right beside the engine. I don't think a Chev will fit. The Statesman engine is also short for a straight six.

I suspect a Ford 289 or 302 might fit better. They were designed for a narrow engine compartment in a Falcon that had a similar spring arrangement.

It is possible a narrow angle (60 degree) V6 may be the best answer.

You are wise not to overmatch the car with a big engine, especially if you want to keep the brakes, steering and rear axle.

The Ford six may be a good choice too, if you keep to the 200 - 250 model. The big 300 cu in may be too long. Even the smaller six will be considerably longer than the stock engine.

About the Nash engine, there is no good news. They were a good engine for their day but, 85HP. They did make an OHV conversion, used in Ramblers in the early sixties but it was nearly as big a turd. The newer AMC six is an excellent engine but much bigger and won't fit.

I keep coming back to the narrow angle V6. They were used in lots of family cars and minivans but all front wheel drive. I don't know if any of them will bolt up to a conventional transmission. But there are lots of different ones to chose from, I know Ford and Chrysler had them and GM too.

The Statesman looks like a big car, and it is, but it is still a lot lighter than a late model minivan or V6 sedan, and has the best streamlined shape of its time. The only 1951 car developed in the wind tunnel.

 

GM used "narrow angle" 60* V6 engines in Camaros in the mid '80's, 3.1 litre IIRC. They also used 2.8's in S10/S15...but those engines seemed to have a high failure rate.

Ford 60* V6, from 2.6 up to 4.0 litres, were used in Pinto, Mustang II, Explorer and Rangers......both GM and Ford applications mentioned here are rear drive.

 

Re the 258.. excellent engine but may be too long for your engine compartment. You will have to measure the car and the engine and see if you can figure a way to fit it in.

 

Early Chevy S-10 pickups had a 60 degree V-6.

 

I think I would do some measuring, either the 302 V8 or the 4 liter V6 would make a great choice. I'm leaning toward the V6. I know the one in my Windstar has lots of power for normal driving, 200HP, and your Nash is 1235 pounds lighter.

No kidding, your Statesman's curb weight is 2990 lbs, the Windstar is 4225. The V6 with the stock rear gears should really burn rubber. And get 25 MPG to boot.

 

Thanks for all of your great input, Folks! Really appreciate it.

 

The Ford 250 inch inline six may be the best bet fitted to a C4 automatic. The engine is narrow and short. The intake manifold is integral with cylinder head, thereby saving some width.

I am cramming a Packard 374 V8 into a 55 Nash Rambler, keeping the original hydramatic. Yeah I know, can't be done easily, well, we will see. I believe it can be done, due to exhaust manifolds are much like old Hemis, in which they exit inward toward the block.

 

Is it a Rambler or one of the bigger Statesman or Ambassador models. The heavy models came with a Packard V8 in 55. The Rambler had the same engine as the 51 Statesman. No V8 available in the Rambler that year. If a Packard will fit a Rambler without major cutting and replacing the front suspension, they are a lot roomier than I thought.

 

I'd find an '82-'83 Camaro or Firebird with the 2.5L Iron Duke 4 banger and a T5 and slip that in it. It'll fit nicely and they have plenty of power and there's all kinds of hopup parts for em. I believe they had somewhere around 120hp - stock. Plus you could use the stock TBI setup as well. I've owned a couple of those Camaros with that engine/trans combo and a 3.73 rearend and they got 30+mpg consistently.

 

My car is a Statesman as I titled the post. They all had the same 85-horse, 1920s-era flathead six. Doggy!!

I have decided to take the unimaginative route and install a 300-horse 350 Chevy with motorhome cam and turbo 350. My pal who does all my fabricating and engine swaps has one that we know is good. Comes with everything--even AC compressor--for $750. I'm just not really a 6-cylinder guy. I also want AC. Hot as Hell here. We can get that in here--I know someone who put one in a '50. Thanks, All, for your help and suggestions!

Mark

 

Here's a pic of the Nash for those of you who are curious. It is pretty damn cool looking and completely original!

 

I was referring to D2 Willys remarks about putting a Packard in a Rambler, not your Statesman.

Good luck with the Chev, please let us know the details of the swap.

 

I vote for the Ford if there is room It's 34" from the bellhousing face to waterpump pulley. 258 AMC about 2" shorter.

 

I respect your choice to do as you wish....however, performance has little to do with the number of cylinders...it is all about power to weight ratio.

 

Rusty: My 55 Nash is the little Rambler. Biggest issue is the hydramatic to Packard adapter. Fortunately the Packard V8 has an extended bell, and I have the short hydramatic bells from Olds and Cads. Simple plate and crank spacer should do the job.

When ever the weather warms up, I will start doing measurements and figuring out what I need to do. I am really hoping not to modify the fenders at all. Steering can be altered.

 

Power to weight ratio is foremost, but then there are gears to help too.

Just look at the new cars with 8 and 9 speed automatics. The ratios are spread out to give performance and economy.

I had a 62 Nova with 371 Olds. Power to weight was 8 to 1, but I still used dual range hydramatic for that low 1st gear. Nice hole shot!

 

It's funny how these discussion boards go off-course. I never said anything about v8s have more power than 6s or anything such as the like. And I also understand more gears are better for performance--you get the right ratio for the time.

In any case, here's what we are doing with this car in case anyone is interested. Took a late model s-10 chassis with PS and cut it off so we could use it as a subframe. Using a nice 300-horse 350 Chevy I got for $700. Putting in a rebuilt Turbo 350 short shaft auto with shift kit. Have a mid-80s Camaro rear end with posi. Using that with coil springs and the ladder connector to the transmission that was originally on the Camaro. Car now will have 4-whl disc brakes, power steering, AC, and a nice reasonable V8-auto. Aftermarket radiator (nearly $1000) with integral condenser. I sent out the dash cluster to have it redone and converted to 12-volt with all new sending units. Had original radio sent out and will be 40 watts per channel with blue tooth phone and FM but use stock tuner. Having fuel sending unit redone and converted as well.

We're going to make this car look completely stock. Will have new wheels--offset to the inside---with slightly wider tires and stock Nash hubcaps. Keeping original paint. Will install new stock headliner (mohair) and windlacing and distressed brown leather/alligator seat and door upholstery. Will try to hide AC vents best as possible. Nothing chrome under the hood. Will take an oil bath or other old aircleaner and modify it to fit the 4bbl.

I'm real excited about this build. If I like the way it drives I will possibly increase power with either a supercharger or stroker motor.

Once done, I will post some photos.

M

 

Glad you have decided on a plan..............though it is a long way from the preferences in your original post. It was that post and your subsequent comment about "I'm not really a 6 cylinder guy" from which I inferred you were concerned about the power of a 6 cylinder vs a V8.

Your current plan clarifies what you really want more than your original post's statements, especially regarding further mods.

Certainly it will be a fun "sleeper" and comfortable ride in the process.

 

Yep--you know how it is. Sometimes these things take time to crystallize in your mind! I was pondering a chassis swap on a '50 Buick I own to a '69 Riviera chassis--but wisely (I hope) have decided to keep this one a nice stocker!

 

I just got a 51 nash like yours only a more door and not as clean by far but has great patina and is so stinkin ugly its just cool.Pondering the same type of build but not for a while maybe over the winter. A friend of mine did a front clip swap on one of these and told me the unibody frame is very thin and he slid heavier square tubing to the middle of the car for strength to tie the clip into.Something you might check out. Good luck sounds very cool.

 

put a inline 6 in it, that 258 would be great choice!

 

The new plan we are implementing is well underway. Decided against the S-10 subframe. Bought a brand new crossmember with Mustang II front suspension. Coil-overs. Disc brakes. Sway bar. Optional power rack. Using stock steering column cut off with u-joints.

Out back using a 9" Ford rear end with 3.70 gears and a 4-link setup with coil-overs and disc brakes.

Engine is a 420-horse 383 stroker with 2500 stall speed torque convertor and new TH350.

Car will have AC as well. Dash has been converted to all 12-volt. Radio is converted to AM/FM with 4-channel and bluetooth.

Car will look completely stock when done with steel wheels, bottle caps and retro bias-look blackwall radial tires.

 

Every Gremlin I have seen had a 232 in it, not the 258.

 

Sounds like this will be a cool sleeper.
I'm keen to see how it turns out.

 

I would say in about two months we'll have this car on the road. Maybe three...