I am a certified AC Tech. Since I've done it, and it works, most of your statement dissing converting from R12 to R134, RodStRace, is malarkey. I do recognize that you will find what you said written down somewhere, by somebody that is against retrofitting, but it's all fiction; If you have the time, simply try it and you will find out for yourself. You may install new seals if you wish, but it certainly isn't a requirement. Of course if you break a connection you ALWAYS put in a new O-ring, but not because the chemical composition of the freon, for common sense maintenance practices. My system on my '29 custom truck has a junkyard Compressor, a 1984 Nissan evaporator, a 1975 chivvy condenser and a Audi Blower motor. I simply tied it all together with hose, purged the system, installed the service adapter fittings, and serviced with R134 along with comatable oil. It blows 30 degree air at the evaporator outlet. The electrical took me longer to figure out than anything else. A few years ago I converted my 1987 Chrysler system, likewise. I didn't change any of the seals in the system. The new R134 adapters that screwed onto the old R12 service ports was the only mechanical change to the system. It worked as good as it before, except the outlet temp at the condenser was about 5 degrees F higher with R12, which is because 134 never has performed as efficiently as 12.
Joel; The (duh) is driven by the car's motor. From there the freon travels to the Condenser(radiator). Out of that it goes to a receiver/dryer(small tank looking thingie) then into the evaporator(under dash unit), then flows back to the inlet of the compressor. I chose the 80s vintage evaporator because it was small and would fit behind the seat of my custom truck. Coming out of the (duh) the freon is high pressure, in gaseous form, hot as hell. The condenser cools it and sends it to the dryer. At that point it is liquid. Out of the dryer into the evaporator. An expansion valve at that point lets it expand and that's where it gets cold, from the rapid change from liquid to gas. Then back to the compressor to start over. The main logistical problem with mix-matching components is the fittings. There are many different ones, so you have to have a fitting that will fit the unit crimpted to a new length of hose. I wouldn't advise using old hose to crimp new fittings to.
please lets play nice or ryan will close the tread thanks for explaining i had no idea how it was working and didn't understand why it had a little radiator for so i take it this is the same way my house refrigerator works ok so i will stay with the setup i have compressor hoses and condenser the only thing i have to see what can fit my firewall is the receiver/dryer & evaporator i should have taken them out of the monte for the hell of it but it was soooo big ok i have been fitting the inner fender wells and then only thing i need to do now is trim a small pan that is sort of the fan shroud ( its in front of the radiator) to compensate for the rad being tilted toward the front slightly i also have to extend the steering shaft i think i will cut the end off the shaft get a pipe with an inner dia the same as the outer dia of the shaft and extend it by welding it all together. i have to get a price on extending (new) drive shaft and bend up my rocker skins im going to order the rust remover and degrease hopefully this week from here http://www.safestrustremover.com/
good going Joel....I like it ....work with what you got and INNOVATE...keep on teaching your helper so he can think outside the box too!!!.... Always been inspired by the folks who say "Can't do it that way" or "It's impossible"....GIT "ER DONE
I had a thought. Could the engine/tranny be pushed back far enough to use the old drive shaft? I know those G-body crossmembers have a bunch of holes in them. Maybe sliding that engine back could kill a couple birds with one stone? just some thing to think about(I'm low,low buck too) keep it up
There are people that have a hundred excuses for why they can't do something, and there are people that just keep their head down, keep working, and figure it out. Subscribing to this thread. Way to go, bro.
too far to push motor back its like 6-9 inches i forgot how much i stretched it will measure when i get home
joel; The receiver/dryer is about the size of a very large beer can, I see them located down at the bottom of the condenser, or on the inner fender, or I've seen some on the firewall. However; I prefer to put it down near the outlet of the condenser, think it is more efficient there.
I am also a certified A/C tech. In fact, I was a quintuple ASE master (some have lapsed) and CA certified for A/C work. I rarely did A/C work, but did do some conversions. It can be done, there are kits. I still say that the oils and the gasses are not compatible, and all seals should be replaced. You said yourself that any opened fitting should have new seals installed. I'd say that in Joel's case, with the components moved around and the cost of refrigerant, he would be wise to go ahead and replace them on general principle. Let's just say that you are more thrifty, I'm more proactive, and keep the name calling out of this fine thread. Here is the government's take on this. No, I don't trust the government, but they do have a lot of info.... http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/609/technicians/retrguid.html
wow all this info is very cool and the schematic of how it flows is perfect just printed it up and stapled it to the wall thanks to both of you guys i can't wait to have a/c im going to try to finalize the nose fitment these next couple of days i have to lift the body off the frame one more time to do some final welds on the rear airbag brackets and seal up the toe boards from the out side i dont think im goin to do body work this year im so excited to put it together and drive it around the block like a little kid
You sir, are a badass. I'm NOT showing my wife this. I like to complain about shop space and finding the 'right' part because so and so used it. Is your kid a motivator or what? My 8 year old son is a slave driver. He BEGS to get out in the shop and throws a hissy when somethings not crossed off the list at the end of the day.Inspirational.Good Luck. I like the spokes.
Joel, I've been watching this for awhile. Please don't just weld a pipe for your steering column to box. I think that the proper joints and shafts should be used for safety.
i was thinking of using solid round stock today instead of pipe but first i have to make shore the shaft is perfectly straight in alignment if not i will have to use the proper joints and shafts and will have to figure where to get it from
don't worry about alignment just mount the column where it's comfortable then use the universals to connect it to the box. if you check out one of the manufacures websites there will be info on correct aplication, be sure and follow the info for safe use. great project by the way!
You aren't any more proactive than I. We are more the same, than not. You are depending on what you have read in a book, I am speaking from doing it. You are too inclined to believe a lot of the Govt crap, I guess. You don't need to change the oil. You don't need to change the seals. You don't need to change the hoses. The facts; R12 systems used Ester type oil. You can use Ester type oil in a R12 system that you are converting to R134. Maybe your ‘government instructions’ say different, but I’m not even interested in reading them again. I read them once, passed the test, then do it my way. I needed the certificate to buy bulk freon, for no other reason, I already knew how to do the job. That's the problem with guv'ment rules, people think they make things better. Guv'ment rules just make it hardere for citizens to exist. 　 It ain’t rocket science. Since I’ve done several systems without replacing the seals/hoses/ or draining the oil from components, I’ll keep on. It works. I do recommend using a gauge set, because if you over-service a system it’s hard on the compressor because the pressure gets too high. I like the low side to be around 35-40, high side on an older R12 compressor about 90, on a later R134 Compressor it can go a lot higher, but I try to keep it under 150. No problem if it does go higher than that, the hi-lo switch will just cycle they system more often. My real test is at the evaporator outlet, below 34 F, and I'm happy. Any more freon won't lower the temp much, but will work the compressor more. I read the excerpt (in italics, below,). It doesn’t have any glaring problems. Rather than typing out my memory, I cut an pasted it. http://searchwarp.com/swa15436.htm The first thing you have to do is have the R12 recovered with a refrigerant recovery machine. (It is illegal to just open the valve and let it out in the air.) Now that the air conditioning system has no pressure, it is time to install the new valve kit. At this point some people freeze up (no pun intended) because they are afraid of mixing up the adapters on the high and low pressure ends. Don’t worry, they are different sizes. The bigger one goes on the low pressure side of the system and the refrigerant hose will only connect to the low side valve. It is pretty hard to mess this up. Now that the adapter valves are connected, it is time to start the car and put the air conditioner on high. Turn the blower fan to its highest setting as well and open the windows. Grab a can of R134 and hook up the hose and T valve that came with your kit. With the hose hooked up to the can begin to twist the T valve until it punctures the can. Then open the valve to let some freon out and purge the air in the line. Turn the can upside down and hook it up to the low side adapter valve. Now slowly open the valve and let the Freon flow into the system. At this point the compressor will begin to cycle on and off. Don’t panic, this is normal. Keep adding Freon until the system begins to cool. You can feel the low pressure line begin to get cool and condensation will accumulate on it. (Do not grab the high pressure line. It can burn you.) You probably will not need all 3 cans and be careful not to overfill the system. If the air conditioner is still not cooling after the second can, something is wrong. You may have a leak in the system or some other difficulty. Do not be tempted to keep pumping Freon in the lines. If the low side line is cold and dripping with moisture you are done. The low side should have a pressure of 40 – 50 psi. Good luck and stay cool!
Old service trick: charge until the return to the compressor is cool. You want it cool to help cool the compressor. Once it's cool, you are done.
Yep; sometimes the short answers are the best. One last thing for the entry-level mech; Don't mix oils; Pag mixed with ester will foam up, at least when it comes out of a contaminated system. Ask me how I know.......... Joel; Here's some more good info; http://www.id-usa.com/how_to_faqs_retrofitting.asp#8
my wife purchased the jesse james welders shirt for me this shirt is heavy duty and looks badass i can't wait to weld with it on
heres a pic of the cruise control setup in the spot it will go for now i will have to relocate it later when i install the a/c compressor but its just vacuum hose's so it no big deal the easy part of this project for me is the wire lol hhmmm maybe cause im an electrician putting a complete nose on by yourself (its not easy) have to trim this area out to compensate the rad being angled out
so why are you even bothering to show us how along you are on the project, if you start out copping an attitude that you really don't care what others think. you'd probably get a hell of a lot more people responding without the attitude, but then again, you don't care.
if you can read what is said and have an understanding of what i said maybe you wouldn't be asking me this question but i will reiterate (repeat) that statment was in regards to the people who just post comments on the stupid things in life as such ugly rims or why are there so much leaves on the ground, you should only use a hemi ect.... you know the ones with opinions that are not going to make any difference in my life now as for comments that have structure or meaning its welcomed because other people are also building their cars and reading/learning and getting ideas from this tread so all good collective minds should collaborate in a positive way if this doesn't clear up the question i don't know what will
Wow, I am not sure where you are coming from. Joel seems to be as open and honest and straightforward an individual as you can find. This thread is an inspiration.
ok i got the nose to fit today and will work the kinks out later now onto the steering shaft i took measurements it looks like 7 1/2" is all i need to be done here is what i have in mind what do you think ok to show my idea i cut a copper pipe for mock up and figure if i cut off the end of the shaft with the tapered end bolt that back to where it has to go and get solid round stock that can fit inside the shaft and weld it in place or a round stock the same dia. but use a lathe to ground the ends down to slide into the steering shaft and weld this is where i would cut
Don't cut it! Use a u-joint with a 1" double D at the end of the column. It should go right over the end of the shaft. The other end of the u-joint can be whatever you decide to use, whether it be double D, splined, etc. As long as the end of your second shaft corresponds to the u-joint. Great thread Joel! You're an animal!
the orig double d is there it just happens i moved the steering column 7 1/2" away from where it orig sit thats why i have to extend the shaft do you have a picture of the u-joint with a 1" double D
I dot these off Summit's site. If you use the u-joint, all you need to do is add the shaft between the new u-joint & original u-joint.
Joel, I'm also working out some steering issues with my frame swap. The only thing I think I have left to do is add a support bearing at the end of my extended shaft. Unfortunately there are no places around here open on the weekend that sell 3/4" rod ends/heim joints. I have to wait till Monday to buy the part, then wait till next weekend to install it! Damn!
what a crappy day yesterday i took my steering column to my buddy billy we where going to work on it cause it was very sloppy in the tilt mechanism which i understand is normal that they get loose i had my orig 47 steering wheel with me to try an idea i have i wanted to mate the 47 wheel with the g.m. column but while we had the column standing up on its shaft and tapping the steering wheel down after we adapted it we notice the bottom shaft collapsed in which i believe is a safety feature in case of an accident so then we clamped the tail in a vise and bang the shit out of it to pull the shaft out, all in all we ruined the column the shift lever inside disconnected it turns roughly so i have to go to harry's u pull it and get another oh well i like junk yard runs anyway
The Jalopy Journal
