I would recommend either buying a factory service manual or seeing if there is a copy online that canbe viewed/downloaded.Invaluable source of information. I would also consider contacting the Nash club.There may be a member nearby who can lend a few pointers andtell you more about the cars habits than we here at a keyboard. As you are caretaking not hot rodding more club members would enjoying helping out.
I totally agree with Crazy Steve. The multi weight oils profess to have the "same film strength as" not the same viscosity. I maintain that the engine was designed around a certain viscosity oil so that is what should be used.
Someone find a cutaway illustration of that engine - if it has a water distribution tube running down one side as most L heads do, it's probably going to be rotted thru, and there's your overheating problem ... straight antifreeze never hurt anything, altho it boils at a lower temp than 50/50.
I didn't say multigrade "thickens". I will say it thins less. 10W30 is supposed to be the same as cold 10W when cold, and the same as hot 30 when hot. Have gone thru this discussion before and am pretty tired of it. Do what you like, it's your car.
If your engine has a water distribution tube you can check its efficiency with a hand held infrared thermometer. No need to take anything apart. The front of the engine should be the same as the back, within 5 or 10 degrees. If the back is hot and the front is cool it means the coolant is streaming up the front of the engine and not reaching the back. Meaning the tube is rotted off or missing.
And anti freeze can freeze at a much higher point point. I don't do Fahrenheit in my head, but water freezes at zero, and anti freeze doesn't get past minus-five unless you add water!!
I did buy a factory service manual from a club guy online. Should show up in the next few days. I don't think it has a water distribution tube, and if it had one I don't think it's still installed. The only tube I see is from the side-mounted water pump to the bottom of the radiator. I'll get some pics when I get home.
So what's the consensus on the fuel pump? Leave the electric pump and clean up the wiring, or try and resurrect the original fuel pump? I love the look of the original pump, but I'm not sure if it's rebuild-able or not?
Got my new Stant R-11 radiator cap. I think I've figured out how the assembly goes, but there's a gasket that came with it, and I'm not sure where it belongs. Ideas? First put in spring, then bell, then seat.
Old fuel pumps would fail because of alcohol in the gas, or sheer old age. They can be rebuilt. All the rubber parts now are made of alcohol proof material, and have been since 1985. I would get a rebuilt pump and put it on, but leave the electric pump on for easy starting and emergency use. Put a switch under the dash board. The original pump will draw gas thru the electric pump when it is turned off and the electric pump will push fuel thru the stock pump if it fails. Do not use both at the same time, you will be feeding double pressure to the carb and flood it out. Also if the stock pump diaphragm fails the electric pump can fill the crankcase with gas so, you need to be careful .
Thanks for the info, retaining the electric for a backup is a great idea. Got my shop manual in the mail yesterday. It's chock full of great info. Literally every part of this engine was meant to be rebuilt. It amazes me that there are so few 'consumables' on cars of these era, and they were designed to be serviced and maintained by the everyman. New oil filter, plugs, and belt on the way. Looking for a reputable shop to look over the radiator.
Big update, been putting in a ton of wrench time. Did basic tuneup stuff -New plugs -New belt -New coil -New condenser -Oil change with SAE30 and Wix basket filter -New battery and NOCO Genius 6v battery tender -New 160 thermostat/gaskets -Radiator flushed, checked, repaired -Removed electric fuel pump, installed OEM AC mechanical pump with two in-line filters before pump -Plumbed new fuel line from pump to carb And finally after tracking down a no-spark issue which ended up being dirty points, it fired for the first time in years yesterday. Won't idle yet, but with a little throttle she runs smooth as a sewing machine. So close, yet so much more to do. Once I can get it to idle, I'll make sure it doesn't overheat. Need to check brakes, fix basic electrical stuff like headlights, tail lights, brake lights, etc. Fix the gauges that don't work. But she lives! Link to vid (can't embed from Flickr) https://flic.kr/p/vFdVTY Thanks for all your help guys. -MK Scored some '47 Ohio plates too. Looks great with the green that's on there.
It's kind of surreal, I feel like these are the early stages of a relationship that will last until I'm dead and gone. I have a bit of automotive ADD and have owned about 30 cars and motorcycles in the 18 years I've been (legally) driving. It's odd knowing that this car will always be around, and that one day it will belong to my sons (ages 4 and 1). It's crazy thinking about them taking it to prom, driving away with their wives after getting married, and one day passing it down to their sons. My wife's grandfather's vision was to get it running and driving so he could drive it in a parade, so that will become my goal to honor his memory. My wife can remember bouncing around in the backseat as a little girl, and many of her family members have never even seen the car run. Amazing how emotional a relationship with a machine can be...
The idle jet in your car could be plugged up. There are 2 ways to fix it. 1) The proper way, get a carb kit and take the carb off, clean it thoroughly, put it back together and retune BY THE BOOK. By that I mean, use the carb rebuild instructions in your Nash manual or by the manufacturer of the carburetor. Do not go by the instruction sheet that comes with the carb kit, they are incomplete and filled with errors. Just do things exactly by the book and it will work perfect. 2) Quick fix, blow out the idle passages. To do this gently turn the idle screw in until it bottoms, and count the turns. Be careful, do not drive the screw in hard. Now take it out. Take your air hose and blow air in the hole. Do not blow too hard, give it 3 or 4 "puffs". Put the idle screw back in, and back it out the same number of turns it was before. I used to do this all the time on VW beetles which have very small idle passages. The only reason I suggest you overhaul your carb, is it has been out of service a long time and is probably overdue for a good cleaning, new gaskets, and needle valve.
Of course you could always turn the carb in for a rebuilt. This would probably be a good idea in view of its age.
I missed this the first time through. I ran into this before on a car, it turned out to have mice nests in the upper rad ! I can only figure someone drained the coolant and left the rad cap off over the winter and the rodents moved in. At first I picked out some soggy fluff that looked like chewed up paper shop towels, finally I took it off, turned it upside down and flushed it, and pulled out enough stuffing to make a pile the size of a football! After flushing the rad it worked perfect. I don't know if this is why your coolant won't circulate but it is a possibility.
Just saw your engine video, made me wonder if the choke is working? Probably a hand choke with knob on the dash? Probably a hand throttle too for fast idle? If it has these hand controls you will need to use them for cold starts and warmups.
So I had the radiator tested and repaired and it's functioning properly. I also flushed the block with a hose and it came out clean. So. I blockages in the system unless the water pump is bad. It's the only thing that hasn't been replaced. I'll try your idle jet trick before I rebuild. The choke knob isn't hooked up, but that's on the list of things to do. So I've been periodically starting it to heat cycle it and wake it up and get fresh fuel through the carb. I can keep it running, but there are a few issues I'm unclear about. 1. The car has an aftermarket temp gauge. It's a crappy parts store special, so I'm not sure if I can even trust it. The manual called for a 160 degree thermostat, and that's what I installed. Once the gauge read 190 degrees, I shut the car off. What's a normal operating temp? Is this high or did I just pussy out before it reached true operating temp. I don't know what to expect, so I shut it off. I have an infrared thermometer, I wonder if I can just shoot it down the radiator neck at temperature to verify the gauge... 2. Not sure if the cap is venting, nothing came out the overflow, and the old gent who worked on my radiator suggested leaving about 1" of airspace below the cap which I did. Could the water pump be bad? Since it's non-pressurized, can I leave the cap off while it runs to see if coolant is cycling? 3. How can I measure whether or not the generator is charging the battery? Same way I would with a 12v system? Reason being, once it warmed up and I tried to restart it, it wouldn't restart. Not sure if it was just too hot, or I just ran it off the battery too long and it didn't have enough juice to fire back up. Thanks again for all the help, I'm so close!! -MK
the tube he is talking about is inside the engine behind the water pump, it slides out front of engine, it basically is a odd shaped thin walled pipe with holes the length and it forces the water to the back of the block. they rot and are a mofo to get out.
The manual doesn't reference a water distribution tube. I'm wondering if my engine is not the original and a later model as there have been a few '47 specific parts I've bought that haven't fit. I wonder if the cooling system is supposed to be pressurized...
MKTSC, Great looking old sled. Brad Penn makes an awesome 30w oil for old cars. $8 a quart? Worth every penny. Has all the zinc and other additives you need. Run it exclusively in all my Olds Rocket engines. They even offer a "break-in" oil. Had an extensive chat with one of the cheif engineers. Super nice people. http://www.penngrade1.com/products/High-Performance/Break-In-Oil.aspx I think they are in the old Kendal Motor Oil plant. JT
I don't think your engine needs a water distribution tube as the water pump is in the middle of the engine not the front. Check the temp at the water outlet on the head or anywhere on the head really. If you have a 160 thermostat normal operating temp will be over that. Maybe 170 - 180? I'm guessing. At idle it shouldn't go much over 160 - 165. Who knows if your cheap temp gauge is accurate, the infrared thermometer should be more accurate. Sure you can leave the cap off. You should not get any overflow out of the rad if you left enough air space and the engine is not boiling over. The coolant level will rise due to expansion when hot, and slosh around a little with the engine running. That is why they used to leave an air space. To check the generator you will need a volt meter or multi meter. Connect to the battery. Note the voltage when stopped. Should be around 6 volts more or less. Could be up to 6.6 ( a fully charged lead/acid cell puts out 2.2, and you have 3 of them). After you start the engine, it should go up to 7.2, more or less. You may need to rev the engine a bit to get full voltage and if the battery is low it will not hit 7.2 until it is charged up but it should be higher than when you started. There are other tests laid out in your manual, to diagnose, repair and adjust things. If the gen is not putting out, check the brushes. You should be able to get at them without taking the gen off. If they are sunk deep in their holders and the spring is hitting the holder they are worn out. You can also lift them up and down with pliers to make sure they are not stuck, or poke them with a stick. Could be wiring, voltage regulator, lots of things. Or it might just be not enough driving. You should put the charger on it and charge up the battery once in a while especially after running the motor or working on the electrics. Charge it up any time you use the battery. It is also possible there is a slight draw when the car is off, in that case it won't hurt to disconnect the ground from the battery when you are not using it. This is a good precaution on any car in storage, it saves the battery and can also prevent an unwanted fire. Cars have been known to spontaneously burn especially if mice chew on the wiring.
About your hand choke. You definitely need it working for easy starting and cold idling. Some cars had both a choke and a throttle cable, others had just one cable and the choke and fast idle were connected together. Prewar cars had both, postwar cars usually had just one, and some cars had automatic choke as far back as the thirties, but usually the high priced makes.
I'll fire it up again tonight and measure the temp at the head in different places. The cheap gauge on it is installed in a bung at the back of the head. I know the engine is all cast iron so I shouldn't have to worry too much about it going over temp, but I still don't want to hurt the engine. The needle on the gauge seemed to be slowing around 190, but I gave it a couple of revs and it went over so I shut it down. I have the battery hooked up to a tender at all times, I bought a really nice NOCO unit and since it's sitting, I just leave it hooked up. I'll measure the voltage at the battery with my meter. I'm wondering if the water pump could be the source of my overheating? Everything else has been checked, repaired, or replaced... As far as the choke goes, the knob and cable are there, and I can see where it's disconnected. Should be pretty easy to re-attach. I blew out the idle port last night, so I'm interested to see if that makes a difference when I start it today. The idle needle was only 2 turns from seated. -MK
2 turns is about right. If it was 3 or 4 I would suspect a badly worn carb. Yours is most likely in good shape. With the choke working correctly it should fire right up. In warm weather it may only need to be out 1/4 or 1/3. It is best not to oil the choke cable. Give it a shot of WD40 if you like, and lube with graphite. Oil or grease gums them up.
Sounds good. Still clueless as to the overheating issues. I'm not sure if it is actually overheating, and I'm still kind of afraid to just let it run to see how far it will heat up. Not sure what "normal" is for this engine.
Remove the rad cap and with the engine running and fully warmed up, you should be able to see the coolant circulating in the radiator. Especially if you rev it up a bit, you should see flow. Hot coolant comes in the top hose and then through the radiator and cooler temp coolant out the lower. Your water pump could be not working well, but the temp gun is really going to let you know what real temps are.
The Jalopy Journal
