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Hot Rods 394 oldsmobile

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Steven Andrews, Mar 13, 2018.

  1. Steven Andrews
    Joined: Mar 13, 2018
    Posts: 3

    Steven Andrews

    Brand new to the group. I have a 1964 Olds 98 with a 394. I want to do some Super tuning and possibly a hi po valve job if I take off the heads. I have spend hours on goggle looking for the factory Cam Specs for the 64 394 330 horse cam specs, lift duration, and LSA, valve sizes in length and stem size, and head C.C. of the 23 heads and how much they can be milled and compression increase. I really have looked hard for the information. Any help?
     
  2. razoo lew
    Joined: Apr 11, 2017
    Posts: 295

    razoo lew
    Member
    from Calgary

  3. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 41,103

    porknbeaner
    Member

    in '64 they marketed 2 394" motors a 2 bbl motor and a 4bbl motor. The 4bbl motor was 345 horse 440 ft lbs and the 2 bbl was 280 horse 430 pound feet. The 4bbl motor was 10.5:1 and the 2 bbl was 10.25:1. Most lists do not show the 280 horse motor for '64, but I have seen a couple '64s with the 2 bbl motor.

    If you mill very much you are going to raise the compression on a motor that already will not run on pump gas.

    Cam specs may be hard to come by. What I have found mucking around the web is about 118 degree lobe centers and about .335 lift. This makes sense as I have a race cam for a 394 and it is .500 lift and 112 lobe centers.

    Probably not much help and I have no idea what a Hi po valve job is.
     
    oldsjoe and saltflats like this.
  4. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 9,556

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Ben you need to get out more. :D
     
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  5. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 41,103

    porknbeaner
    Member

    LOL at least he knows about the super tune. :D
     
    saltflats likes this.
  6. Paul
    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 14,417

    Paul
    Editor

    I Ultra High Super tune all my rocket engines, hi po valves or not.
     
    51box likes this.
  7. COCONUTS
    Joined: May 5, 2015
    Posts: 596

    COCONUTS

    I had the 4 BBL 394 and it took Hi-Test and nothing less. Sold it a few year back and the current owner told me that it does not run well on the new corn fuel. Lucky for him you still can obtain regular high test fuel but at a cost.
     
  8. bchctybob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2011
    Posts: 1,672

    bchctybob
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Glad you're messing with an old Olds, 394s are my favorite. Here's another thread to study.
    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/rocket-oldsmobile-v8-information-compiled.715390/
    Also search Olds, Oldsmobile and Rocket on here and you'll find a bunch of info. There's also an Olds or Rocket group on here somewhere. I'm sure the valve size info is in there somewhere but I really doubt you will find cam specs. Try a Hot Rod, Motor Trend or other magazines from the time your engine was new. They always seemed to include that sort of stuff in their reviews of the new cars.
     
  9. I am not a betting man but I bet you that Tony has those specs in his shop ....that would be @GOATROPER02 on here Steve. PM him and see if he can help.
     
    belair likes this.
  10. I had a 67 Toronado with the 425, and during the fuel crunch, the gas was so bad that I made up a water injection unit that worked off the engine vacuum. Any time the vacuum was down to 7.5 in, the unit would cut in.
    It stopped all the problem with pinging, and I could use regular gas, which was a real plus because a lot of out of the way gas stations didn't have premium.
    I also used the water injection system on my BB Chev, and when I had to pull the engine because of a spun bearing, the cylinders and heads were as clean as new. Later, some companies came out with commercial water injection kits, but modern electronics has eliminated the need for this solution. I have also flown jet aircraft that used water injection, that was how I got the idea.
    Another way around this problem, depending on how much a person is driving the car, is using octane boost additive. I have used this with my BB Chev and my BB Ford.
    Bob
     
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  11. oldsjoe
    Joined: May 2, 2011
    Posts: 2,503

    oldsjoe
    Member

    Try contacting Ross Racing Engines in Ohio. They may have the information you seek. Joe
     
  12. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 41,103

    porknbeaner
    Member

    JC whittney was selling a water injection unit way back when I was a little kid. But it was not automatic, you had to trigger it.

    Using a vac sensitive unit is a good idea. You ping under load not when you are cruising, and you vacuum drops when you nail it. I was toying with a methanol injection setup for my 394 so that I could drive it on the street that would have been on a vac sensitive switch. but it is in the 13+:1 range.

    On todays fuel water injection is a good idea, my motors all seem to run best on premium but sometimes when you are traveling that is non existent.
     
    j-jock likes this.
  13. models916
    Joined: Apr 19, 2012
    Posts: 380

    models916
    Member

  14. oldsjoe
    Joined: May 2, 2011
    Posts: 2,503

    oldsjoe
    Member

    Mr.Beaner I have the more modern design 425cid and two 455cid in my cars at this time. Having around 10.5-1 to 10.75-1 compression ratios they all run well on 93 octane. That being said as you know 93 or higher octane is not always available when traveling so I do carry a little octane booster just for the occasion premium fuel isn't available. I do encounter a detonation (ping) under load sometimes even with the high octane fuel. Because as we all know all fuels are not created equal! Being able to design and use a water injection system, would be a very good idea. I may have to have a look see as to how the installation is designed for optimum use. I'm sure there is a more economical way to design a system than the $400.00 to $500.00 systems offered at the mail order parts houses. Joe
     
  15. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 41,103

    porknbeaner
    Member

    I feel your pain on the fuel.

    The easiest way to make one work that I have found or learned from other people is to use a cheater nitrous set up, then install a tank and a pump. Vac sensitive switches are easy to come by and if you are just using water or windshield washer fluid you can use a window washer pump. All you need from the Nitrous setup is the spray bar and a cheater setup would hide completely under your air cleaner and spray down your air horn.

    You can get more extreme than that but that is by far the easiest.
     
    oldsjoe likes this.
  16. There are water injection systems that are still available, but mine was dirt simple to make.
    I used a Stewart Warner vacuum sensing unit that I found at the local auto parts store, a windshield washer container and pump, and I made an adjustable metering valve on the lathe. I routed the neoprene line through a drilled hole in the bottom air cleaner plate, and attached the nozzle to the air horn of the carb. I attached the positive pump wire to the run wire of the ignition system. The other end of the wire went to the vacuum sw. It took a small amount of testing to find the correct amount of water but I adjusted the water flow so that then engine started to ping under the heaviest load, and then increased the flow slightly from that.
    A person could attach a exhaust gas temp sensor to the headers and use the temperature under load to determine the perfect amount to meter, but my experience was that a tiny bit of excess water was not detrimental to the operation of the engine.
    When flying piston aviation engines, the maximum fuel efficiency occurred at peak EGT -50 F. The difference between an piston aircraft engine, ( or a boat engine), and an automotive engine, is that the aircraft engine has a high, stabilized load, so the most efficient temperature is easier to determine.
    I didn't think of this until now, but a person could design this system to also inject octane boost using a similar system.
    Bob
     
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  17. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 41,103

    porknbeaner
    Member

    Part of the reason I was considering methanol as opposed to water in the setup I was throwing around had to do with 2 things, one was that the compression I was dealing with was not going to be overcome by water and the second was that if I am already injecting methanol on the street it is nothing to switch to nitro-methane at the track. I doubt that the performance boost of nitro would be noticeable but the smell would make it worth it. :D
     
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  18. I was running a cr of 11:1 on one of my BBs, and I was able to use regular gas with the water injection. All the systems I ran, were on engines without a blower or turbo, but I did some looking last night, and found an article that stated it worked just as well on the boosted engines.
    Just a little tidbit on the use of water injection for the jet engines, I flew the 747-200 for many years, which had the water injected Pratt and Whitney engines. We carried 700 gal of distilled water, and used it only for takeoff. After the takeoff, the water was dumped. The thrust was augmented so dramatically, that the failure of a water injection system to an outside engine during takeoff, required a substantial rudder correction. Below, is the extra thrust on one engine using the system. That meant an increase of 4,000 lbs thrust total, and we needed all of it.
    JT9D-7A, Dry T/O rating 46.150 lbs. Wet rating 47.670 lbs.
    Bob
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
    oldsjoe likes this.
  19. oldsjoe likes this.
  20. oldsjoe
    Joined: May 2, 2011
    Posts: 2,503

    oldsjoe
    Member

  21. Fedcospeed
    Joined: Aug 17, 2008
    Posts: 2,011

    Fedcospeed
    Member

    Hey ,just picked this up with a bunch of 49 olds parts.Not a stock wiper fluid jar for that car,this is twice as big. Looks like home made bracket. Alum top that reads D&D #1 Detroit Michigan. Water injection setup jar??? water injection pics 002.JPG water injection pics 003.JPG water injection pics 004.JPG water injection pics 005.JPG
     
    oldsjoe likes this.
  22. Ive got a complete 62 dynamic 88 4 dr htp in my hoard. It has the 394 rocket with a 2 bbl. Ive found if you pull the heads and smooth and polish all of the rough casting from the combustion chambers. and CC them to the largest chamber volume. The pinging and detanotaion will not occur. With todays fuel you will make more power with lower compression.
     

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