351 w cam timing question

I have a late 70's[smog motor]for my f-100.It's a stock running motor.I've read on here that the cam timing is retarded from the factory.If you change the timing gears and chain you can set the timing straight up.Anybody do this and does it make a difference.I did a search but can't find the thread about this.Thanks for any help.

 

I imagine that it wouldn't hurt. I advanced the timming on a Pinto cammer once and it ran like a scalded ape.

 

Personal experience; if its a 302 or a 351 W go for it. A 360 is hard to make do anything other than drink too much gas. A 302 or a 351 W when given a new cam with about 260 advertised duration gets better fuel mileage and a strong mid-range.

 

Yea 360s are dogs, but advancing the cam timing on those definatly make it alot better then it was. I set my buddys 360 up and it did pretty good to hold him over untill we snagged a 390 up. Just my two cents though.

 

beaner correct me if im wrong though, if he gets a 70s timing chain and sets it up dot to dot wouldnt it still be retarded?

On my 352 in my truck I got a pre 70 timing chain set, I think I used a 65 galaxie with a 390 to get the part number, so that it wouldnt be retarded still. Get what im saying?

 

Shocker998md,That makes sense to me.I was thinking about an aftermarket gear and chain set where the crank gear has three key slots cut in it.Thanks for the input.

 

That will work too, I dont know if there is an OEM chain that will do what I do with the FE's.

 

Isn't the retarded timing built into the camshaft?

 

There's a good chance any stock type, even one for a '69 351, is retarded. Get an aftermarket performance set I would be straight up, or maybe you could put it in 5 adv to offset any chain stretch.

 

I'm trying to say this from memory... The first years of smog engines, Ford kept the cam, and retarded with the Cam gear. Later, they used a straight-up cam gear again, and retarded with the cam grind.

You can recognize a retarded cam gear just by looking at it, sighting across the pin location back to the cam snout hole. If yours has this offset, then a different gear will correct the cam timing, and the vehicle will come alive. (Sort of.)

If the vehicle year-of-manufacture tells you it is a smog engine, but the cam gear (if original) is not retarded as described above, then yours has the retard built into the cam, and you need a replacement cam gear set that has the crank-gear offering varying (crank key-stock) slots that allow you to advance the cam by selecting one of the optional slots.

If you get it right, the first time you accelerate hard, you will think someone drove ointo the back of your car. It makes that much difference. Is there a danger of advancing too much? Likely not. Timing chain stretch will retard your work soon enough. At least, that's been my experience since back in the day.

 

Sounds like the best way to go is to replace the cam and gears.Even a mild cam should make a good improvment.Thanks for the info.

 

Many aftermarket cams have 5 adv built in, check with the manufacurer.

 

Hey guys,
I have also heard of the retarded cam timing on Fords. Anybody know for certain if a 351 Cleveland has a retarded cam from the factory.

 

I heard it was the crank gear where the timing was retarded.

 

On a 460 it was the crank gear. If you have the intake off turn it to top dead center which ever cylinder is on the exhaust stroke lay a straight edge across the top of the lifters of the exhaust lifter is higher it's retarded.

 

Guys, Ford didn't retard the cam timing on Windsors.

351M-400 and 460's

 

Doesn't matter witch one it is because you replace both....

 

Ford and a lot of cam grinders (Comp Cams, Lunati, etc)offer a multi-index crank sprocket (some 3-9 keyway positions)some allowing 8 degrees maximum advance/retard. This will counter the retard the manufacturers put on camshafts.

 

Go aftermarket all the way,,,,cam, sprockets, which usually have multi position keyways,.. chain....(double roller) and install straight up.....That's a good strong engine....

4TTRUK

 

Lots of good info in this thread. Now I have a question.......I have a 77 model 400 in a Ranchero. Should this have the retard built into the timing gear, or the cam itself? Thanks

 

Guys;reread post # 16,Alex has an engine building business specializing in FORDS!!That Mustang in his avatar is one of their race cars,289 powered! Windsors did not use retarded timing sets,I have been building 260/289/302/351Ws for over 40 years,NEVER seen such a thing,on 460s YES. ROY.

 

Some of this stuff sure does go with wrong information, amazing