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Technical 348 409??

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by u2bomber, Mar 9, 2020.

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  1. u2bomber
    Joined: Jan 2, 2010
    Posts: 44

    u2bomber
    Member
    from california

    While rooting thru an old guys pile of stuff I know , I came across what he said was a 409 from a wrecked 60-65 impala he got years ago , it had three deuces so I figured 348 but the dipstick was on passenger side. This came from a stock impala motor was never removed as far as he knew. I didn't want to play my cards too soon on buying it before I got the vin etc I will thurs he had to leave . I was told the 3 deuce was only 348 but I read in 1961 horsepower was bumped to 340 with single 4 and 350 with Tri- powered 409 ( one yr only ) from a hot rod mag article I found. what's my attack plan gentleman ? I did not see the coveted air cleaner though . also if it is a 3 deuce 348 what is the value roughly ? obviously if it a 409 its $$$ what vin etc should I search for ?
    thanks
    Ray
     
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  2. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 18,173

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    there were no factory 409's with 3x2's. a 348 manifold will fit a 340 hp 409 though and a pan from a 409 will fit a 348. you need to look at the numbers to ID it
     
  3. fordflambe
    Joined: Apr 9, 2007
    Posts: 488

    fordflambe
    Member

    Ditto Moriarity.......... 409 guys wouldnt be caught dead with a 3x2 intake on a 409. To ID the block, look for an "X" cast into the front driver side of the block, just behind and slightly upward from water pump. If it has the "X" it is a 409

    409 car blocks are normally worth most $$$$
    Truck blocks are normally worth least $$$$$ (because they are low compression)

    It can be worth some $$$ regardless of which block (if it is a good core)
     
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  4. neilswheels
    Joined: Aug 26, 2006
    Posts: 744

    neilswheels
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    from England

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  5. neilswheels
    Joined: Aug 26, 2006
    Posts: 744

    neilswheels
    Member
    from England

    ..and look at this, no 409's listed with 3x2's, although it does list a 350 348 with tripower in 61. Either someones changed the inlet or sump
    http://www.348-409.com/specs.html
     
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  6. as mentioned above, no 409 ever left with 3x2's. In 61 the 350hp motor was a 348 with the 3x2's. 409's came out late in 61 and were rated at 360hp with a single 4 barrel
     
  7. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 10,094

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Look at the flange on the rear of the crank, if round it's a 348.
     
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  8. u2bomber
    Joined: Jan 2, 2010
    Posts: 44

    u2bomber
    Member
    from california

    I misread the article ( sorry ) , I will have vin and look for the X Thursday . the thing that thru me off was the passenger side dip stick in a stock car. I was told 348 was on driver side .I can snag it for a grand with the tri power( didn't see air cleaner) . I would do a total rebuild and run in my merc... seems like a no brainer even for a 348 I should easily be able to muster 350hp correct?
    Which is fine for me ,although I know the trip power is finicky at least again what I've been told lol .thanks guys
    I am open to hear thoughts ...


    When introduced the base 348 was called the Turbo-Thrust and produced 250 hp, the Super Turbo-Thrust with three two-barrel carburetors was rated at 280 hp. Late in 1958, the Special Turbo-Thrust with a single four-barrel was rated at 305 horses and there was more to come. For 1959 and 1960, horsepower rose to 320, and 335 for the Carter AFB-equipped four-barrel version and three-deuce edition, respectively. Then in 1961, horsepower was bumped to 340 with a single four-barrel, and 350 with Tri-power.

    https://www.hotrod.com/articles/1208sr-chevys-w-series-348-and-409/
     
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  9. u2bomber
    Joined: Jan 2, 2010
    Posts: 44

    u2bomber
    Member
    from california

    understood .

    The dipstick is what had me wondering ,I understand I cannot tell until I can vin the block Thursday .I just found this gem under a tarp with 3 deuces and I confess I am not a w expert . Considering the block is good after magnefluxing it must be worth the grand even if I have to part it out correct ? I would like to build it though
     
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  10. 41rodderz
    Joined: Sep 27, 2010
    Posts: 4,722

    41rodderz
    Member
    from Oregon

    Would he let you have it sonic tested before you hand over any cash? You said you know him. If block is not is bad make an offer based on that and keep the 3x2 set up and sell the rest . Use the 3x2 for future cash or trading .
     
  11. u2bomber
    Joined: Jan 2, 2010
    Posts: 44

    u2bomber
    Member
    from california

    I hear ya , I wish it was a 409 then it would be a no brainer , I called him and I am going over thurs morning to get into it I will take pics and get all the vins .I appreciate the help I was looking for 4 bolt sbc blocks for future builds . I found two 0010 blocks complete then he pulled the tarp off this and I was stoked . I always hear about the barn find stuff and I was hoping to be the guy this time .
    I was under the impression this manifold will only work on wedge 348 . I did see that $$$ Edelbrock set up for these 434 hp 494 tq !! 4600 bucks lol turns it into a rollers motor. I just thought it would be a cool motor to try in my merc with the 3 deuces .
    I may feel guilty as my hood rarely would open and this would look great in say my old 30 Tudor rat rod . I sold it and it had a 56 flatly with high rise thixton and two deuces I would not have change it but I just mean a open setup
    .
     
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  12. The X will NOT tell you its a 409, that is a mistaken ID that a lot of people tell, because the truck 348 engine could also have the X on the block.
    I had a 348 truck engine that also had the X on it and it had the oil pan with the dip stick on the passenger's side. Truck 348s look like 409s but you can't go by the outward looks.
     
  13. BLACKNRED
    Joined: May 8, 2010
    Posts: 306

    BLACKNRED
    Member

    It's all in the casting numbers.!!!!!

    easiest way to tell a truck block from a car block is the truck block has extra holes tapped for accessories on the passenger side front, the car blocks are only tapped on the drivers side for the power steering.

    the most common desired blocks are below, now Jan 61 '09 blocks and early 62 blocks are another story.

    422 can be car or truck
    814 can be car or truck
    655 (348) truck
    656 (409) can be car or truck
    655, 656, 422 and 814 truck engines have a single notch around the location of the exhaust valve, although low comp, these blocks make good HP engines with the right pistons, the 655 and 656 have "Armasteel main caps".

    Early 348 truck blocks have double notches in the block, hard to make HP with these.
    Truck oil pans have the dipstick on the passenger side, some have extra capacity.
     
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  14. What BLACKNRED and 56Don said...........
     
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  15. bchctybob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2011
    Posts: 2,215

    bchctybob
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Take a good wire brush to the sides of the block, clean it the best you can and look for obvious cracks before handing over any money. I was there when a customer brought a “409” to my machinist. He scraped and brushed the crud off the block and found both sides cracked in several places. The customer was pissed, he paid top dollar for the core engine.
    Since it seems to have had a 3x2, I would bet it’s a 348. It would still make a great hot rod engine but it will cost more to build like nailhead Buick’s and Oldsmobiles.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  16. Almostdone
    Joined: Dec 19, 2019
    Posts: 250

    Almostdone
    Member

    To give you an idea of value, just a couple years ago I paid $5250 for a rebuild 348 with a tri power. It was the low compression version, probably a 280 hp, but with a few improvements. It only had one original carb. It was sound and I’ve had it running.

    I feel pretty good about what I paid. Others may differ.
     
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  17. u2bomber
    Joined: Jan 2, 2010
    Posts: 44

    u2bomber
    Member
    from california

    my engine builder said he wanted to magneflux it
     
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  18. u2bomber
    Joined: Jan 2, 2010
    Posts: 44

    u2bomber
    Member
    from california

    im going to really get into it Thursday , I immediately thought 409 when I saw the heads and didn't want to act too interested . its been sitting among 20 other engines for 10 yrs inside of big garage . I think im pretty sure I can get it for 900 bks .
     
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  19. u2bomber
    Joined: Jan 2, 2010
    Posts: 44

    u2bomber
    Member
    from california

     
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  20. u2bomber
    Joined: Jan 2, 2010
    Posts: 44

    u2bomber
    Member
    from california

    Thanks for the insite man, he is an old timer and is a little scatterbrained and bounces around trying to show me different stuff . He told me he pulled it from a 60-65 impala( he couldn't remember) that was wrecked on a farmers property by me 10 yrs ago .I called him back to ask about dipstick its on passenger side , he said the car was bone stock down to the steering wheel . but that doesn't mean much I know . it most certainly has 3 deuces so its a 348 I take it .( dipstick on passenger only means it may have been out and changed in its long life I guess ) we will see soon
    I will surely check for
    back of block casting
    manifold casting
    x cast
    I am sure we could pull a valve cover off ,im sure he would let me if there is a head number in there ?
    I will take a ton of pics and post them here .
    Please let me know if there are any other key things to look for, he is old and hard to get ahold of .He doesn't even have a cell phone .
    Would it be possible for you to check in or follow this thread this Thursday ?
    You obviously have the knowledge , I also would consult 348 409 site but I have to join .
    I feel silly joining just to ask a question about a motor that I don't even own yet ...
     
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  21. u2bomber
    Joined: Jan 2, 2010
    Posts: 44

    u2bomber
    Member
    from california

  22. She's real fine if its not cracked.....
     
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  23. u2bomber
    Joined: Jan 2, 2010
    Posts: 44

    u2bomber
    Member
    from california

    its not too late for a 348 lol
     
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  24. UNCLECHET
    Joined: Dec 3, 2002
    Posts: 1,113

    UNCLECHET
    Member

    I wouldn't mind having either a 348 or a 409. You should buy it. I would.
     
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  25. u2bomber
    Joined: Jan 2, 2010
    Posts: 44

    u2bomber
    Member
    from california

    I agree man, im going to give it a good eyeing for cracks and really just spend some time on it and the vins ...
     
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  26. 03GMCSonoma
    Joined: Jan 15, 2011
    Posts: 223

    03GMCSonoma
    Member

    Is there anything stamped on your dipstick? Mine had 409 SS on it. It was located on the passenger side. Take a spark plug out and see if it is a 409 plug. If I remember right, the 409 plug had a lot more threads than the 348. The pan is larger in the 409 because it holds a lot more oil, 7 qts I think.
     
  27. u2bomber
    Joined: Jan 2, 2010
    Posts: 44

    u2bomber
    Member
    from california

    I believe it to be a 348 after everyones input ,the numbers will tell .I will have them this week and will post updates
    thanks .
     
  28. That's True. I have a 348 block, A buddy of mine was selling his 348 block at a swap meet. As we were talking some "expert" came up & proceeded to tell everyone in ear shot, how this X meant it was a true hi-po 409. Got me pretty excited to get home & check mine, had the big X, but, the casting #s told the real story, 1965 truck block
     
  29. ROADSTER1927
    Joined: Feb 14, 2009
    Posts: 2,742

    ROADSTER1927
    Member

    409 crank flange. P3100001.JPG
     
  30. hdman6465
    Joined: Jul 5, 2009
    Posts: 652

    hdman6465
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Late 61 and early 62 did not have an x in the front. All 409 had 409ss on the dipstick. Lopo 409 heads will fit a 348 intake. That should get the arguments started! LOL
     

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