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History 327 vs 413

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Truckdoctor Andy, Jan 18, 2019.

  1. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 5,922

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    Not to mention having to sing and drive at the same time.
     
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  2. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 3,677

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    All we know for certain is the 413's lead was starting to shrink.
     
  3. Bench racing a song.....lets get serious.
    Which song was more uplifting? Teen Angel or the Wreck of the Edmond Fitzgerald.
     
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  4. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 1,364

    gene-koning
    Member

    I'm going to say whom ever was driving either one would make a huge difference on the outcome.

    Years back, there was a team of guys doing the "brand" car shows at dragways. They had a version of nearly all the hot cars that were mentioned in the 60s songs, and would present a grudge race rivaling a couple cars that supposedly raced in those songs. A pair of their most used cars were the Fuel Injected Stingray and the 413 Super stock Dodge. They would run the cars each day of the 3 day car shows covering both brands. At the Chevy show, the Stingray mysteriously always won, but at the Mopar shows, the Dodge always mysteriously won. It was always entertaining for 3 or 4 years. They also had a GTO that raced whatever it raced in the song, and it always won at the Pontiac shows, and the Cobra always won at the Ford shows. Simply amazing!

    I'm a Mopar guy, the Super Stock 413 Dodge would have kicked the Fuel Injected Stingray's butt! The song was out of wack though, in real life, the Chevy would have come off the line much faster, and the Dodge would have blown past it towards the end of the 1/4 mile, the song had those events backwards. Gene
     
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  5. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 1,364

    gene-koning
    Member

    Yea, but the Stingray's pressure plate was starting to burn cause his machine was too much. Sounds like he was setting up an excuse! LOL! Gene
     
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  6. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 1,364

    gene-koning
    Member

    Teen Angle, hands down. It got a remake in the 80s or 90s, so it must have been more uplifting... The wreck of the Edmond Fitzgerald was never recut, that I know of. Gene
     
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  7. Both cars were equally matched, with power to weight.
    I'd say, with a 98 inch wheelbase, slicks and a 4 speed, it should have been over not long after it started.
    But, after burning his clutch up in low gear, he probably didn't have much left in fourth gear, ...and here comes the mighty Mopar:eek:
     
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  8. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 5,693

    Rickybop
    Member
    from Michigan

    "Wow, he's fast, isn't he."
    "Yeah, but he's stupid."
     
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  9. Last Kiss, or maybe Tell Laura I Love Her...otherwise known as splatter platters.
     
  10. low down A
    Joined: Feb 6, 2009
    Posts: 177

    low down A
    Member


    never was such a thing as a new 1969 roadrunner all were 383's
     
  11. Mid year 69, 440 six barrel was offered. You could get a Hemi upgrade in 68 and 69.
     
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  12. 383 or hemi for 68. 440s were available in 4bl and 6 pack for 69. How else do you get a A-12 lift off hood super bee or road runner? Gtxs and R/Ts had a 440 or hemi.

    If the Corvette ever hooked needle bearings from the u joints blowing up would be raining down on eveeyone. I have seen too many blow up over the years to want to stand close to one on the line.

    Jenkins didn't know how good he had it in 65.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2019
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  13. low down A
    Joined: Feb 6, 2009
    Posts: 177

    low down A
    Member

    hemi was a option few were produced i did forget about that 69 and half 440 6 pack. didn't it have a lift off fiberglass hood
     
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  14. Jere stall revealed his secret to the 66 cars success at one of Frank spittles super stock shows. The tires couldn't hold the hemi so he had a company in England build him a special set of tall gears for his trans. The car would not spin the tires at the hit. He never told Chrysler what he was doing.
     
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  15. Tickety Boo
    Joined: Feb 2, 2015
    Posts: 971

    Tickety Boo
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Most of the early fuel injection units were replaced with carburetors, no one could get them to run right, especially after changing camshafts. Even now very few guys understand the changes needed to get it to idle correctly.
     
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  16. That was for the Chrysler 300s that had a 392. The bendix injectors only made it into around 12 cars total. They were replaced under warranty. At least one original has survived with its injector still in place.
     
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  17. Jalopy Joker
    Joined: Sep 3, 2006
    Posts: 23,257

    Jalopy Joker
    Member

    just reminded of a song about a real challenge on the road of a Cadillac (364ci) vs a Nash Rambler (195ci) : "Beep Beep" by the Playmates in 1958 - at 120mph driver of Nash Rambler yells out to driver of Cadillac " Hey Buddy, how can I get this car out of 2nd gear?"
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  18. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 12,194

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    Those guys never heard of Pepe Estrada or Tom ? don't recall his last name.
     
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  19. lumpy 63
    Joined: Aug 2, 2010
    Posts: 948

    lumpy 63
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If I recall Pepe and Tom were putting 12 bolt guts in vette diffs...
     
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  20. I wonder if the Corvette driver had his Corvette logo driving gloves; pants and crossed flag sweat shirt on? All those guys seem to have the same silly outfits.
     
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  21. Tickety Boo
    Joined: Feb 2, 2015
    Posts: 971

    Tickety Boo
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Brian, still got your White Hat ? :D
     
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  22. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 5,922

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    [​IMG]
     
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  23. Hahaha...no, I left my driving gloves and flat hat at home for this photo... But, once I did come across the Vancouver corvette club on a little tour that just happened to come through my town. They invited me to drive down the Washington side of the Columbia gorge with them. Shiny shoes, $200 sun glasses, sweaters and all.
    In this photo I'd just finished adjusting the Hurst shifter and tightening the always-loose shifter mount on the trans.
    I never raced a big block MoPar but I had respect for them. Still do.
     
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  24. bundoc bob
    Joined: Dec 31, 2015
    Posts: 104

    bundoc bob

    This is great. Somebody buy me a beer...
     
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  25. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,994

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    I didn't mention torque, 352 ft lbs @ 4000RPM for the Corvette, 460 @ 4400 for the Dodge.

    If the Dodge could get traction and had a good launch the high torque should give it the lead, while the lighter lower more streamlined Corvette would come into its own at high speeds. But again there are too many variables. If they both had 4:11 gears and the Vette had drag slicks it could well have pulled away while the Dodge was burning up its tires.
     
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  26. 41rodderz
    Joined: Sep 27, 2010
    Posts: 3,213

    41rodderz
    Member
    from Oregon

    Hey , my avatar ran a above said engine, won a lot of races at 3 different dirt tracks and one asphalt track and won a few championships races and track championship. It beat a lot of 327's etc . etc .So that's my take .:D
     
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  27. IIRC, John Lingenfelter ended up using bronze bushings in the u-joints of the super stock Corvettes he ran, that was the only way he'd get 'em to live through a launch. And the bushings were 'consumables'.... LOL.
     
  28. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,427

    classiccarjack
    Member

    Yes... It was optional

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  29. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,427

    classiccarjack
    Member

    Too bad loctite wasn't around sooner.... I used to have to tighten those bolts too! LOL

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  30. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 2,779

    jimdillon
    Member

    This is one of those topics that bring out the bench racer in many of us (in spite of those that say it is just a song-yea like most of us haven’t invested small fortunes in living in the past). I remember years ago when I used to occasionally post on a Corvette forum and we had a similar “discussion”. Most Mopar guys will pick the 413 and many Chevy guys will pick the 327-not surprising. If a Ford car had been in the song we know which way most of the blue oval guys would lean towards.

    Many of us remember the days of street racing and probably 95% of the street racing guys had cars that were street stock with some modifications of course. The reality is that street cars and fully modified NHRA stock cars are too very different animals with different ETs of course. What the state of a 413 vs a 327/365 depends on which stock they were IMO.

    My first high performance car was a 64 Fury (Brian and I have reminisced about our 64 Plymouths-a really cool car IMO). Mine had a 383 which was not a giant killer but for several months I had a 426 wedge that had seen too many trips down the quarter but was still a pretty decent performer. A long story but I ended up selling the engine back to the guy I bought it from (with a little knock) and sold the car shortly thereafter with the 383.

    I now own a 327/365 in my black 62 Vette. The only difference from the 375 is that the 375 has fuel injection. If tuned properly in good air the 375 should outrun the 365-but not by much IMO. As much as I like the 327/365 I would still give the nod to the 413 if the setups were equivalent. I seem to remember Al Eckstrand running in the lowish 12s with his 413 and I remember 327/365s running low 12s a couple of years after Eckstrand-in drag race trim. Of course the 365/375 were not on the market when the 413 was run as a factory effort (the 426 wedge had taken it’s place).

    If were talking on the street anything can happen and it does not mean you are faster. If the Vettes slicks were spinning he may have been running 64/65ish pie crusts as Goodyear Blue Streaks were not so plentiful yet and if they had pie crusts-loss of traction was often an issue.

    Some food for thought though are a couple of magazine tests from the era (for whatever they are worth).

    Hot Rod January 1962, a 1962 Corvette 327/360 with 4.11 gears ran a 13.89 @ 105.14 (I realize that the camshafts are different with the 375 fuelie-the 375 has the same Duntov cam that they placed in the 302 Z28-but I cannot locate a 375 drag tests-plus I like the fact that this was tested in 62 so we know the slicks would not have been that great anyways). Another Hot Rod test with the same combo except for a 3.73 rear turned 14.12 @ 103.

    Motor Trend August 1962, a 413 Dodge (Ramcharger I have in my notes-not sure what that means or if it was just hyperbole on the reporter’s part)- a 413/410 3 speed auto (not sure there was a four speed- I thought only a three speed manual or auto) 3.91 gears ran a 14.4 @ 101.

    Both cars are flat out cool and not sure either would crush the other, if the same level of stock. If you took these tests to the bank some may lean towards the 327 and we all know anything can happen in a drag race but all things considered I still would pick the 413 if both were properly tuned and set up. I still have a soft spot in my heart for my old 64 Plymouth. My Fury was white but I painted it black and a few years ago I ran across a black 64 Sport Fury with a 426 wedge at Autorama and it mesmerized me-I kept walking back and looking at the car. In my next life I would own another
     
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