Hot Rods 318 Mopar HEI Brakedown on way to Frog Follies

big blocks turn CCW, small blocks turn CW, would be an easy mistake to make

 

Especially for someone just copying and adapting someone elses design to make it work on another engine.

 

Put a stock Points and condencer distributor back in the car, carry an extra set of points and condencer in the glove box and your troubles will be gone.

 

Is it possible your breather is bottoming out on the baffle, or the bottom of the grommet wasn't cut out (don't laugh, I've seen it done)? This could render your PCV system inoperable.

 

Maybe, maybe not. It has yet to be determined how and why there is oil making its way into the distributor.

 

youtuber low-buck garage has a recent video about a cheap HEI he got for his SBM. It isn't pretty.

 

Link?

 

"anothercar guy"---The PCV valve fits into a breather, which twists on the valve cover. so there isn't blockage there. I have put just under 3,000 miles on the car since the engine install. I drove the car to Louisville and back last month, 400 miles plus, a couple of weeks before the breakdown on the way to the Frog Follies, without any problems. The car is running fine, but I haven't had the chance to put any miles on it yet. Will try to make a couple of short trips this week and check the HEI again to see if oil is making its way up the shaft.

Squirrel--interesting thought about the groves on the shaft, but can't understand why the oil problem didn't show up a long time ago. Maybe the leak is so slow it took this long for the HEI to fill to the point where it was over the top of the module.

 

^^^^^ I can see it now.

 

it's not the main focus of the video and the subject would not fit the forum. I am not going to embed the video for those reasons. His stuff is a bit out there and tongue in cheek, and this one is really out there. Not the best intro to his work. Figured anyone interested would be able to search, but since you asked the title is
DIY Funny Car, The Drag Race Jeep Gets a Front Suspension Delete. Oops!

 

The real issue here is, unless you have pulled that HEI cap off that distributer and looked specifically for an oil build up over all those miles you have already driven the car, you really have no idea how much oil, nor how fast that oil is collecting under the cap. Then, if the HEI was already on the motor when you got it, that oil could well have already been in the distributer, or may have been building up long before you bought the motor and way before you had the problem.
The oil build up may be a recent discovery, but I'm betting that unless you would have been looking specifically for the oil build up, it was something that would have been easily missed. I don't believe I have ever taken a distributer cap off a distributer and thought "Golly, I think I will look to see hw much oil might be building up under this distributer cap today."
Its just not something that is considered a common problem, so its not something we look for.

 

gene----I had the engine rebuilt by a local race shop back when I put the car together, so the oil build up has taken place in the 3,000 miles I've driven the coupe. No way of knowing whether the oil got into the HEI slowly or all at once. But, putting some miles on it now, by way of short trips. and checking it afterwards should give me an indication. Will let you all know what I find.

 

OK, borntoloze, I drove the 33 to town this morning to fill up the tank, about 15 miles round trip. Let it cool down and pulled the HEI cap and rotor----oil in the base. Not a lot but enough to convince me the oil is coming up the HEI shaft internally. Next step is to pull the HEI and figure out why. Oil pressure was 75 lbs while idling and then dropped to 55 when in gear on the road. It could be a seal, or as KenC and Squirrel suggested, the groove on the shaft could be cut the wrong way. One step at a time.

 

This is a really long shot and I'm not sure it's possible but check your vacuum advance and see if the diaphragm is blown. IF the cap sealed fairly tightly, you could build up vacuum in the cap and accelerate the oil coming up the shaft. It's hard to imagine the cap sealing well enough to do that but like I said, it's a long shot.

 

If you pull the distributor, find a stock one and compare the bottom ends that go into the engine. See if the oily one has an extra hole in it.

 

OK, so six months have passed. I was out of town for over three and then tried to order a DUI (Davis United Industries) HIE. American made. Back ordered. Waited several months and supplier said they now have no idea when it might be available. So, ordered a Pro-Form from Summitt. Yes, it is Chinese made but Summitt says they have had no problems with them. Will try to install it this weekend. Will also go back over all the other possible issues mentioned in this thread.
PLEASE, ALL THE BACK AND FORTH ABOUT THE MERITS OF POINTS vs HEI AREN'T HELPING.

 

Received the Pro-Form HEI. Shaft above the intake manifold was an inch higher than the one with the oil leak. Not compatible with the air cleaner I had. Plus, when I dropped it in rotor was almost three spark plug terminals off. Since the mopars use a sloted (not a gear) shaft you can only put them in one of two ways and, given the vacumn location, the correct drop in is NOT 180 degrees off. I had marked the old HEI before I pulled it and after seeing the Pro-Form rotor pointing to a different terminal I called Summitt. Answer given was to find top dead center again and then reset the sparkplug wires. This didn't make sense to me so I looked at the HEI I initially had in the 33 and it's rotor also pointed to the same place as the one I replaced it with (the second one with the shaft oil leak). Yes guys, I on my third HEI.

So, I was faced with replacing the air cleaner with a smaller one, retiming the engine and moving all the sparkplug wires. Walked away from the problem for a couple of days and I get an email from Summitt that they have a Davis Unified Ignition (DUI) HEI that someone never picked up in their Texas store. Sent back the Pro-Form, received the DUI yesterday. I had put the problem HEI back in the engine to make sure nothing fell in while I waited. Roter still pointing to where I had marked it and timed it originally. DUI arrives (pricey but american made). Go to drop it in and it is three sparkplug terminals off, but it does fit with the current air cleaner. Call Davis, yes I have to find top dead center then hook up sparkplug wires accordingly. Also need to replace wire from key to HEI with 10 or 12 guage. So, now waiting on a friend to come down, when he has time, so we can retime it. This has been a real fun experience.

Stay tuned!

 

Mopar small block is bring the engine up to TDC No.1. The slot should be aligned to point toward No.1 left front. Rotor pointing roughly the same or straight ahead. Drop in dist. Wire plug wires clockwise starting at No. 1. 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
Vacuum advance is pointing toward where 6 and 8 are on the engine.

 

Yeah its.not that hard to change the spark plug wiring.


...

 

RodSt, the HEI was timed using the same method and firing order you provided four years and 3,000 miles ago. Ran fine. So, if the various HEI's for the 318 are the same and the shaft can only go in one of two ways and I carefully marked the problem HEI before I pulled it, why wouldn't the new HEI drop in and point to the same terminal as the old one? I don't have a problem with starting from scratch, finding top dead center and moving the sparkplug wires accordingly. I just don't understand why it wouldn't drop in and point to the same terminal as the one I pulled out.

 

So why don't you just turn the dist. the required amount and reset the timing. If your oil pump drive is off you will have to move it to get the slot in the right place. You want the slot pointing to the left front intake bolt when you have number 1 up on the compression stroke.

 

Where can you buy GOOD IGNITION POINTS?

 

That would have to be because the tang on the shaft and the rotor attachment were not made the same as the first unit. Who knows where this aftermarket "stuff" is made and how well researched the manufacturing was? If we choose to use the stuff we have to deal with the aftermath. Personally I've seen enough budget no-name HEI stuff give so much grief that I avoid it. I'll use OEM GM on a GM engine (non HAMB) but that's all. Give me a Mopar ignition system any day...excellent stuff.

 

Why not just put a Pertronics unit in a stock MOPAR distributor and be done with it?

 

Pertronix is not without their own issues The Mopar system is the only way to go on a Mopar IMHO

 

It's not that hard to reclock the timing gear. Back it out with a big long screwdriver, put the slot where you want it for the preferred plug wire orientation, and you're done. Nothing is gonna fall out down below. Since two distributors have been three plug wire positions off, it's more likely that your original distributor is the one that is off

 

Good Niehoff and Echlin NOS points and other ignition parts are available on Ebay. These are all made in the USA from the good ole days. Just pick the ones that look like they have the oldest box. If you need part numbers for your application, I have old books, PM me.

 

You are almost there. The new unit doesn't go in and point the same way as the old unit. THEY WERE NOT BUILT THE SAME. Like @chicken said, who knows where and to what standards.
Just do it the right way.
Did you bring it up to TDC before marking and removal? If so, it should be obvious which is offset wrong. Either the old one aligns as described, or it was off. If it was off and the new one aligns, life is good. If the old one was right and the new one is wrong, well, you've got a quandary. It's not to OE specs.
I did a quick search and it doesn't show new OE MP dist kits. There are various other new stuff, which is all questionable. Here's a used dist, you still need the module and ballast, along with coil and wiring.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/276389346539

 

It is almost that easy. Remember that the intermediate shaft also engages the oil pump and when removed you lose the tang to slot alignment and that has to be addressed.

 

I remember. I've done it dozens of times. I drag raced a small block Mopar for quite few years. The drive will drop in by nudging the motor forward or backward.