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283 running issue

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 59Apachegail, Apr 28, 2012.

  1. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,380

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    Just in time to loose the season again! My old girl was running fine and just as I was about to take her to a local show she started acting up again...

    59 apache 283 2 bbl 4 speed
    New wiring harness, new wires, cap, rotor, battery cables, coil, starter ballast, fresh hoses and antifreeze, starter, points are very clean.

    Originally it would run for two hours or so and then sound like it was starving for gas I would hold down or pump the gas and she sputter along until it would die. It would take an hour or so then she would start up again and run fine. I took it out this morning it ran a little weak as I was hitting the gas it started to cut out and died. I got it to run stronger let it settle down and started on my way to the show. I got about a mile or so and she started running weak and died.

    The battery is good and I left the gas cap loose to prevent any vacuum. I don't think it is the ignition system, bad grounding or a short. I use marvel mystery oil every time I fill up.

    Any ideas what it might be?

    Thank you!
     
  2. First thing I'd do would be to loosen the gas cap and try it again. It may be the tank vent is plugged or if the tank is vented with the gas cap, you may have an incorrect non-vented cap on it. I've run into this several times.. Good luck
     
  3. koth
    Joined: Apr 30, 2007
    Posts: 161

    koth
    Member

    A couple of things I would do.
    First, the fuel issue is likely the fuel pump being worn out. Sounds like you replaced alot of other items, and I have had the same symptoms that you had.
    Second, put a fuel filter in line between the fuel tank and fuel pump, in case there is debris in the tank, that prevents it from clogging the pump.
    Third, pull the plugs and see how they are burning, are they whitish/soft brown in color, or black and sootey? I am not sure I understand why you are using the marvel mystery oil, can you explain that?
     
  4. My old girl was running fine ......she started acting up again...

    Again ??? What was the problem last time

    Fine one day and not the next should be easy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2012

  5. Rex_A_Lott
    Joined: Feb 5, 2007
    Posts: 1,019

    Rex_A_Lott
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Search from the tank forward and change all the fuel filters that you can find...someone may have added some extras over the years. Dont forget the one in the carb itself. If this doesnt help, you may indeed have a bad fuel pump, or it could be vapor locking.
     
  6. original tank? been sitting? i would be looking for a clogged line.can you blow back through it?
     
  7. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,380

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    Thanks all!

    She sat for years before I got her, and marvel was recommended to clean her up and provide some lube. I wasn't sure if the engine was original and didnt want to use lead alternative. She sat all last season because of electrical and mechanical issues until I could find the cash and time to get her going again. I have been working through the gremlins one at a time.

    I have a single stainless line to the fuel pump then another from pump to carb no filters. My gas pump is a mechanical one attached to the block. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some gunk in the tank. I will try cleaning it up and re-post once I'm done.

    Thanks again!
     
  8. Rex_A_Lott
    Joined: Feb 5, 2007
    Posts: 1,019

    Rex_A_Lott
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you're running the original type 2 barrel, there should be a filter at the carb, inside the fuel inlet fitting. The old sintered bronze type were notorious for stopping up and doing just what you describe. Replace it with the paper type. Good Luck!
     
  9. Da Tinman
    Joined: Dec 29, 2005
    Posts: 4,226

    Da Tinman
    Member

    You should install a filter too, I bet your carb needs cleaned rebuilt as any junk in the tank now has a straight shot into the fuel bowl.
     
  10. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,757

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    The first thing that I would do is nail down the fact that it is in fact a fuel problem by carrying a can of starting fluid with me.(about 2 bucks a can at Wal Mart.) When it starts to act up have someone spray some of the starting fluid into the carb. If it starts up immediately then you are sure that it's a fuel problem and you can eliminate a lot of wild goose chases. If that makes no difference on the nonstart then you need to look elsewhere and save yourself some time. Diagnosing a problem is often the hardest part of fixing a problem.
     
  11. slammed
    Joined: Jun 10, 2004
    Posts: 8,151

    slammed
    Member

    A new, quality fuel pump would be cheap insurance and peace of mind. Same with a water pump. Beats a tow bill.
     
  12. Engine man
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,476

    Engine man
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Put a gas can in the box with a hose to the fuel pump as a test. I would put a large filter in the line between the tank and pump.
     
  13. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 28,829

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Rocky's comment on the gas cap is a good one as it's too easy to put a non vented cap on older rigs that need vented caps. also on that Line I went though a batch of name brand "vented" caps a few years ago that didn't vent. Pretty much the same symptoms. Drive it a few miles have it quit, let it sit and after an hour or so it will start and take off for a while longer.

    If you haven't already done so, I'd pull the tank out and clean it out as trash in the tank is one thing that causes real problems on old rigs that have been sitting for a while. Then put a good inline filter between the tank and the fuel pump that will catch dirt before it can get to the fuel pump.
     
  14. TxRat
    Joined: Dec 22, 2004
    Posts: 1,412

    TxRat
    Member

    I think you nailed it here. Do what Tommy said about the starting fluid and then put some filters on it
     
  15. THis will rule out a crudded up tank. I would replace the fuel pump and all hoses since you don't know how old they are.

    One of those clear plastic (never use under the hood..) gas filters will give you an idea of what may be trying to go through your carb. Maybe buy a few of them if you do any driving with the truck.

    Bob
     
  16. Have you changed the condenser??
     
  17. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,380

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    *Yes new condenser as well for got that one.
    But I have to install new ground wires from the rotor to the coil just for the sake of getting rid of all old wiring.

    Here my progress so far:

    I took the line off the carb and found an old but pretty good brass looking filter there was a lot of rust particles and a little leg. Line was clear from the pump to the carb cleaned out and reinstalled.
    I took the line from the tank to the pump and there was some beetles or similar in there.
    I took off the fuel sender found another beetle and no sock at the bottom.
    I was surprised how clean the tank was. I was expecting it to be cruddy but it just has some rust particles laying on the bottom. Also there is a white film around the tank. Should I still drop it and clean it up? Does anyone know what that could be?

    I am a little afraid of messing with the pump or removing bolts in the engine as I broke some when trying to install new exhaust donuts. Man that was a pain! If i have to I will soak em in pb blaster for a few days.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. can you see the inside top of the tank? the rust forms on the top and every time you fill up it knocks the flakes off.
     
  19. I think you found your problem. I don't think you're going to run into the same problem with the fuel pump bolts that you had with the exhaust bolts. They should be well lubed and come right off.

    I have no idea what that white film is in your tank but as you can tell you definitely need to have a good filter between the tank and the pump and it wouldn't hurt to put a sock on the fuel pickup to keep out the big chunks!
     
  20. All that red stuff is an issue thats needs attention. There's more inside the carb covering the jets and plugging passages. Time for a cleaning and rebuild kit.[​IMG]
     
  21. Torkwrench
    Joined: Jan 28, 2005
    Posts: 2,506

    Torkwrench
    Member

    It might be a good idea to double check all of the new parts. I had similar problems with my 1960 Impala. I had just filled the gas tank and shortly afterwards, it started running very badly. The first thought was bad gas. However, it ended up being the brand new condenser. The wire appeared to be attached to the condenser, but it fell out when I bumped it. Course this was after draining the gas tank, (twice), checking the timing, carb, and fuel filter. After installing all Mallory points, rotor, dist cap and condenser, the problem was fixed.


     
  22. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,380

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    Thanks all!

    I will check the condenser.
    Hope that pump comes off easy will add the filter and swap out that pump.
    I've been dreading removing the carb been sitting on a rebuild kit all winter. I bought another one just like mine to "test" on I have been learning as I go.

    Will post back once the filter and the pump arrive.

    Thanks again!
     
  23. putz
    Joined: Jan 22, 2007
    Posts: 553

    putz
    Member
    from wisc.

    how old was the gas and tank , tank probably needs cleaning , i had same trouble with my 39 ,installed extra see through filter ,cleaned carb ............
     
  24. malibustevens
    Joined: Jan 7, 2012
    Posts: 287

    malibustevens
    Member
    from Illinois

    Rebuild the carb, install sock in tank, install inline filter. Bet the beetle bugs and dirty carb are your problem.

    Maybe the white stuff is from the marvel? If its in the tank.
     
  25. The Rochester 2GC (looks like yours...) or similar carbs are easy to rebuild. Just take some pictures of it from all sides first so you get the linkage back the right way. Take notes & more pix as you dissect it. Some carb cleaner, pipe cleaners and compressed air is all you really need.

    Bob
     
  26. and give it some new premium fuel

    my roadster last run in 2009 and am using the eather :confused: bunney to start it
     
  27. Engine man
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,476

    Engine man
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    That white stuff is what you get when gas evaporates. There should have been a spring behind the brass filter in the carburetor. The spring pushes the filter against the inlet fitting. When the filter plugs, the pressure of the fuel compresses the spring and allows gas (and crud) to flow around the filter. The springs can rust away. Be careful with the fitting that holds the filter in the carburetor. It's very easy to strip out. It should turn in by hand until it bottoms out, the snug it up a little with a wrench. There should be a sealing ring on it. Try a filter before and after the pump. It might run ok. Just keep plenty of spare filters in the truck.
     
  28. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,757

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    One word of caution...I wiped out a brand new 396 with rust from the gas tank. Mine had the brass looking filter element that did not show the tiny rust particles when checked. It caused the carb to flood 1 too many times and thinned out the oil enough to wipe out engine. I ended up replacing the gas tank to solve the problem. I added extra filters at first but it was a muscle car that I wanted to keep original. I was so wrapped up in the flooding problem that I didn't realize what it was doing to the engine. It can be a serious problem.
     
  29. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,380

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    All Thanks for the info,
    Sock, pump, filters ordered and on their way.

    Tork, will re-check. seems like its always the part I took for granted that is the cause!

    Putz, Gas tank original. Gas about a month old.

    Bob good eye it is a 2gc is there any difference between the auto and manual carbs? I have the manual version on the truck I have an auto version I bought to test with. they look the same is there any difference inside?

    Engine man Thanks! learned something new. You're right about the spring seems kinda weak and thin.

    Tommy I'm in the same boat trying to stay as original as possible. Thanks, I will drain re-oil... an engine rebuild is way over my head at this point so paying for one is not in the cards. Will play it safe.
     
  30. Inside they're the same, prety much outside too with some minor variations here and there. See that tag on the front of the carb? Jot those numbers down and take it withy you to the parts store & get the right kit.

    I think the only difference from model-to-model is the float height, easy to set and they give you a gauge with the kit.

    Bob
     

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