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Customs 283 ENGINE

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Mister E., Feb 27, 2020.

  1. Mimilan
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 619

    Mimilan
    Member

    Install a complete 8.8 Ford rear-end from a Ford Explorer LWB V6
    59-1/2" Wide
    3.70 Ratio
    Posi Traction
    Leaf Springs

    I paid $70 for one complete with Handbrake cables and driveshaft

    https://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/Ford-8_8-axle.shtml
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
    HOTRODPRIMER likes this.
  2. Mister E.
    Joined: May 4, 2018
    Posts: 474

    Mister E.
    Member
    from USA

    I don't want to have f*** parts of any sort added to my truck.
    I called an R&P manufacture and they said they can absolutely get me either a 3.90 or is it 3.93, 3.73 something like that... (not sure of the ratio's).
    Once I am able to afford to I will call them back and order one, as they said they will install into the pig, pumpkin, chunk etc, as I have seen it called.
    That way I keep the original rear end intact.

    Also before I forget, I am going to the local salvage yard to check out a couple of their rear end assemblies, corporate rear ends as well as I think I found a nv4500 still intact.

    So even if I can't find the ho72 or ho52 parts, I may get to snag a 12 bolt posi or limited slip diff that I can install and I'm sure that will help some.

    Btw when I pulled the diff cover and counted the ring bolts it's a 12 bolt diff. Not sure what happend there, I always though the cover bolts matched the diff bolts in number. Guess not??

    So anyway, another question I have is about the axle splines inside the diff, are they interchangeable?
    As in I pull the side gears / spider gears and install the ones in my diff?

    Or is that too much wishful thinking?
    Ok I guess I've shown how much I know, or lack there of.. I appreciate any and all advice.
    Thanks in advance and GOD bless everybody.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
    HOTRODPRIMER likes this.
  3. I didn't build the car, I traded my red '32 sedan for the car, I was built by fellow hamb member Ron and he may be able to fill you in on the mount. HRP

    RON
     
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  4. Mister E.
    Joined: May 4, 2018
    Posts: 474

    Mister E.
    Member
    from USA

    **UPDATE**

    Paid on the machine shop bill today. Final estimated quote $2500.

    Took some pics of the engine while I was there, got it cleaned up and tested, not cracks found in block or heads . Good solid sound block/heads now he said he wants to do a 30 over bore to clean up the cylinders as they had something scratching the bottom side and it was worse than my initial thought. :(
    Any way, he said they did an initial cleaning and now they'll do a deeper cleaning & going to bore it 30 over.. then start the rebuild and let me know how its going.

    He already ordered the complete rebuild kit, (gaskets, seals, bearings, is going to order an RV cam. I think he called it a rv cam, something for torque. also he said the exhaust seats were solid and no wear, doesn't require hardened seats.
    He's looking for steel shims for head gaskets as the ones I had were the wrong ones and couldn't be reused since they were (damaged).
    He showed me where they cleaned out the water jets / jackets and stuff in the heads and block, had a lot of junk inside. So it should now be better cooled without all the buildup.
    Over all, I am glad I took it in, would be an absolute shame to try to run it as it was only to break down before even making it home.

    Have pictures to add, but laptop won't let me so will add them from phone in a minute.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 29, 2020
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  5. Mister E.
    Joined: May 4, 2018
    Posts: 474

    Mister E.
    Member
    from USA

    So my question about all this, = Does it sound accurate,? How the guy wants to use an RV cam? I forgot what he said it was called sorry.
    Also, I looked inside where the the cylinders and could see what he wanted to do, but does it necessarily NEED to be bored?
    He's the professional and all, but at same time I don't like anything unnecessary to be done.
    What are your thoughts on this folks?
    Thanks in advance
     
    HOTRODPRIMER likes this.
  6. The RV cam is what Jerry is using in my engine, it's just a bit more aggressive than a stock cam.

    30 over is not too much and it will probably need that to clean the cylinders up to specs. HRP
     
  7. Mister E.
    Joined: May 4, 2018
    Posts: 474

    Mister E.
    Member
    from USA

    Ok. That's what I was wondering. I like the way it has cleaned up so far, looks a lot better than when I first started messing with it.
    Its down to crunch time as far as it veing ready before I have to leave and go back home. End of july my tags are due, so Im hoping I can get it all done and be home in time to do my tags.
    My biggest obstacle has been time and $$$.
     
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  8. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,303

    56sedandelivery
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Perhaps you could have him show you how much "taper" is in the cylinders. It may "look" fine, but in reality, the cylinders need to be bored to correct for taper. I will say, $2500.00 seems like a LOT to me, but I do all my assembly work, and only have someone else do what I can't/don't have the equipment for. I am Butch/56sedandelivery
     
  9. Mister E.
    Joined: May 4, 2018
    Posts: 474

    Mister E.
    Member
    from USA

    The $2500 is the full rebuild cost. The initial cleanup, including heat tank, checking and resurfacing heads, making sure no cracks or fractures in the block etc.. a lot of stuff that I'm not sure how to describe, other than a complete tear down and prepping.
    $1000 seems more like a deposit.
    I am glad to know that the cylinders will be done correctly though, I couldn't remember what it was called until I read what you replied. "taper" something I'm not familiar with. So at least he seems to be up front about it. Other shops that I called wanted me to take it to them and let them just do it and get the cost after the fact, I don't work that way, I gotta know cost, or at least estimate first hand.

    Thanks for your input.
    Eric
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
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  10. Wrench97
    Joined: Jan 29, 2020
    Posts: 134

    Wrench97

    $1000 is a expensive cleaning bill..............................
     
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  11. Eric, RV cam is a generic term for a camshaft that is a little hotter than stock. A great example is the Melling MTC-1. It has the same specs as the Edelbrock Performer cam. I have one in a 350 and it woke the engine right up. Relatively smooth idle and is a great upgrade.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  12. Mister E.
    Joined: May 4, 2018
    Posts: 474

    Mister E.
    Member
    from USA

    Sweet!
    Sounds like a good upgrade for my 283 then.
    Should I mention that Melling MTC-1 to the guy? He didn't specify what rv cam he'd be getting, I do need something for towing as well as hill climbing. Esp going back through Montana mountains.
    Thanks
     
  13. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 2,605

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    Any cam acts quite different in a 283 vs a 350. Last engine
    I had bored and honed , magnafluxed and tanked was $350 . 12 years ago..never have paid for head work or assembly , so I cant help you , however $2500 seems steep
     
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  14. You sure could mention the Melling number. Melling is obviously known for oil pumps, but they make a ton of other engine parts. They have a rather large catalogue of camshafts, some high performance/racing cams, but they don’t have a flashy name or lots of hype around them. Personally, I feel like that helps keep the prices down. They make good stuff, always had good results when using their parts. 2Old2Fast mentioned that a given cam in a 350 would act differently in a 283, I believe that to be correct. In your 283, the MTC-1 would be a little “hotter” than in a 350. Please, someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think it would be enough to worry about. I think you will be very happy with it, and if that’s the cam you get, please let us know how you like it.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  15. Mister E.
    Joined: May 4, 2018
    Posts: 474

    Mister E.
    Member
    from USA


    Hmmm, now I'm wondering about the 350 cam... Is there a specific one i would want??
    Which would be a better choice folks, a 350 cam or the Melling mtc cam??

    I don't know much about this, so I tend to ask for help when I don't know.
    Anybody got an idea about this?
    Thanks in advance all.
     
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  16. Mister E.
    Joined: May 4, 2018
    Posts: 474

    Mister E.
    Member
    from USA

    Thanks, I will make sure I get a break down of each individual thing and it's itemized cost so I can see where the $$$ is going.

    I looked online before I made any calls to see what is a reasonable price for all that, and all results I got for this area was between 4500 to 6500 for cleaning hot tank boring honing etc etc, and rebuilding complete engine.
    So I am thinking maybe it has to do with "expensiveville" florida in general that likes to overcharge anything it can.

    Anyway, I just can't wait to finally have it done, get it installed and go zoom zoom instead of putt putt lol
     
  17. Dick Stevens
    Joined: Aug 7, 2012
    Posts: 2,889

    Dick Stevens
    Member

    The cam manufacturer is the expert source of info on which cam they make will give the best desired results!
     
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  18. Mimilan
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 619

    Mimilan
    Member

    The Melling MTC-1 is a good cam. You dont want too much duration on a 3" stroke [street engine]
    .420 Intake lift with 204 dur @ .050
    .443 Exhaust lift with 214 dur @ .050

    The cam we used was Very similar .
    We used an Elgin #CL1787PK designed for a very workable 1200- 4200 rpm range
    specs are
    .427 Intake lift with 204 dur @ .050t
    .427 Exhaust lift with 204 dur @ .050

    we chose this cam because we could use Lightweight "Drop in" valve springs [we didn't want too much spring seat pressure]
    .435 lift is the limit without coil bind and stock retainers.

    Our 283 is zero decked to raise the compression to an honest 9.6:1
    and it is fed from a Rochester 2G, and exhaust is Ramshorns into a big bore single exhaust.

    It is very responsive "Off the throttle" cruising. We don't wind up the revs [that's what race cars are for]

    http://www.northernautoparts.com/part/ek-ek0951 for complete Cheap engine kits
    Our complete rebuild [including boring, cutting valves ,decking block/heads] cost us $2500 NZD incl shipping to NZ , taxes, machining , plugs, leads, points, oil and filter [But we did the assembly]
     
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  19. Mister E.
    Joined: May 4, 2018
    Posts: 474

    Mister E.
    Member
    from USA

    Ok, so where I plan on driving through mountain ranges kind of regularly when I get back home, would I want the
    420 intake with 204 dur @ .050
    443 exhaust with 214 dur @ .050 setup?
    Also I assume that being the Melling with those numbers?
    I am also planning to haul between a 26 and 30 foot travel trailer off and on.
    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
  20. Mister E.
    Joined: May 4, 2018
    Posts: 474

    Mister E.
    Member
    from USA

    Pretty much I want to drive and not have to downshift into 2nd gear because of hills, and when I am towing with camper or maybe a boat once in a while I don't want the truck to crawl hills, I want to be able to keep up with traffic
     
  21. Mister E.
    Joined: May 4, 2018
    Posts: 474

    Mister E.
    Member
    from USA

    I just spoke with the machinist, he said that he agrees with the Melling MTC-1 torque cam.

    Is what he said he planned on getting, so that's good.
    He said it needs springs???
    Not sure what he means.

    Anybody?
     
  22. Dick Stevens
    Joined: Aug 7, 2012
    Posts: 2,889

    Dick Stevens
    Member

    Valve springs that will be right for use with that cam
     
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  23. Mister E.
    Joined: May 4, 2018
    Posts: 474

    Mister E.
    Member
    from USA

    I kind of thought that, since that's the only springs I could think of. At least I know what cam is going in, and I am happy to know it will be much better than the standard generic.
    I wish it was already finished, I want to go back home already.
     
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  24. Mister E.
    Joined: May 4, 2018
    Posts: 474

    Mister E.
    Member
    from USA

    I have been thinking about the low gear factor from the sm420 and ho72 = 4.56 rear end... what kind of performance can I expect when I do finally get the 283 installed?
     
  25. Mimilan
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 619

    Mimilan
    Member

    The extra duration on the exhaust can benefit from back pressure (mufflers)
    Those short duration cams really help cylinder pressure a torque. When you use long duration cams you need to up the compression to counteract lost cylinder pressure caused by valve opening overlap
     
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  26. Mister E.
    Joined: May 4, 2018
    Posts: 474

    Mister E.
    Member
    from USA


    Yeah, I would think the guy be smart enough to put in a short duration, I'm assuming that's what the Melling MTC-1 is??
    He knows that I am looking for torque as well as highway speed.
    also I am thinking of exhaust options, not sure if I want to run dual or single exhaust.
    I am always thinking of what's going to be the best option.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
  27. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 4,816

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    Do you have a link to any sources to back that up? IMO no "back pressure" in the exhaust is ever good. A free flowing exhaust that allows as much scavenging of the exhaust gas out of the combustion chamber is always beneficial, already combusted mixture cannot provide any benefit to an otherwise fresh charge of air & fuel. The velocity of the exhaust gases through the exhaust plumbing is important, and using the right manifold/headers and tubing/mufflers to match the hp/torque range of the engine is important, so bigger is not always better, but that's not "back pressure", that's tuning for velocity. But, I'm not so wise I can't learn something new, so if you have anything that says otherwise, please share it.
     
  28. Mister E.
    Joined: May 4, 2018
    Posts: 474

    Mister E.
    Member
    from USA


    I have what I will call straight manifolds?, ( not ram horns ) that angle downward toward firewall. (3 stud type)
    My plan is to run straight pipes back to muffler(s) and straight out the back. Not quite sure as to do a single exhaust, or if dual would be more appropriate? I kind of like the thought of running dual exhaust, but wondering about any pro's and con's to that.
    Either way, I'm learning as I go and taking advantage of all the advice and information from everybody.
     
  29. If it were mine, I would run 2” dual exhaust with Turbo mufflers and tail pipes all the out the back or exiting behind the rear wheels. Glass packs would work too, but tend to be a little louder.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  30. Mister E.
    Joined: May 4, 2018
    Posts: 474

    Mister E.
    Member
    from USA

    I'm looking to keep it quiet, as it is now with the 6, she's louder than I like. So, I'm hoping to get a nice quiet setup with quieter exhaust.
    I'm not into loud and obnoxious, I'm into enjoying the quiet country roads, and if I happen to see deer, moose, elk, works, etc.. I don't want to scare them off with a loud vehicle. I'd much rather pull over, and watch, maybe even get some good pictures to share.

    I had my loud and crazy times back when I had old beater cars and trucks, now I like peace & quiet as much as possible. Also with loud vehicle, can't enjoy the radio, or even hear ya self think, let alone speak to your co-pilot without having to raise your voice.
    Just my opinion tho.
     
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