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Hot Rods 276 test drive disappointment......need help

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 36tudordeluxe, Mar 22, 2014.

  1. 36tudordeluxe
    Joined: Oct 2, 2008
    Posts: 496

    36tudordeluxe
    Member

    Filter and pump is near & below tank.
     
  2. King ford
    Joined: Mar 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,477

    King ford
    Member
    from 08302

    Did you check voltage to the coil, should be 9 or more if your using points (on the + side of coil) also tape your timing light to your windshield ,tape back the trigger too! And try to drive the car, if the motor stumbles or misses and you see a difference in the "pattern " of the light flashing you can look further for ignition issues,( points bad or too close condenser shorting bad coil etc.) also you can check your coil with an ohm meter should be 2 1/2 to 3 ohms I believe if its much more try a nother coil good luck
     
  3. flatjack
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 975

    flatjack
    Member

    I'd definetly be looking at ignition. It ran fine in the stand, but not in the car. Voltage requirements increase a lot when the engine has a load on it. Have you tried a new condenser? I've read that Mallory condensers are not that reliable. Try an IH 200 from NAPA. As noted could also be a coil problem.
     
  4. hotrodtom
    Joined: Apr 14, 2005
    Posts: 231

    hotrodtom
    Member

    The Model A guys always say that 85-90% of carburetor problems are really ignition, and I think that applies here. I have a 241 Dodge Red Ram that we tried for years to get to run right, and it acted just like your flatty -- same size (roughly), I was using a single Edelbrock 94, and a Mallory Unilite like yours. We found that the Mallory module is extremely sensitive to voltage fluctuation, and could be 'fried' accidentally by simply charging the battery. It would start and run with fresh plugs and a new module, but never felt "happy" and powerful. We were even buying modules in pairs so we could have a spare when (not if) I got stranded. After months (years) of agonizing over why-won't-it-run-like-a-healthy-motor we started talking about using a different distributor. Just thinking, Andy Rafferty runs a Mopar electronic on his Red Ram that has served him for years without so much as a plug change. But finally Kit Carlisle clued me that Pertronix makes a module that fits the Mallory Unilite distributor. We got one, installed it, crossed our fingers -- and it fired instantly, idled cleanly, and ran like the hotrod it should have been at first.
    I hope you're not married to that Mallory.
    Fearless
    P.S. We're running a Holley 390 now, and it's a different beast altogether.
     
  5. 36tudordeluxe
    Joined: Oct 2, 2008
    Posts: 496

    36tudordeluxe
    Member

    Kingford, Flatjack & hotrodtom, you guys made me think of something I completely forgot! When the engine was on the stand I was using a coil that wasn't compatible with my Mallory electronic ignition and eventually burned out my module. BUT before it destroyed the module it ran like crazy. So when I put the engine in the car I went back to the traditional style canister coil and was told I needed a ballast resistor along with the coil so "it wouldn't burn out" the module. With the engine running am only getting 5.62V at the coil but didn't burn out the module so I thought this was the correct fix. So maybe I should try running it without the ballast resistor? The coil is advertised as having a built in resistor.
     
  6. 36tudordeluxe
    Joined: Oct 2, 2008
    Posts: 496

    36tudordeluxe
    Member

    This is embarrassing, I had removed the fuse for the fuel pump and then put fuse back in an empty slot in the panel!
     
  7. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,233

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It happens.

    I spent the morning troubleshooting about an eighth-of-a-million dollars worth of computer network equipment. After lunch, I turned it on.
     
  8. hotrodtom
    Joined: Apr 14, 2005
    Posts: 231

    hotrodtom
    Member

     
  9. 36tudordeluxe
    Joined: Oct 2, 2008
    Posts: 496

    36tudordeluxe
    Member

    Wouldn't happen to know part# for Pertronix module and coil that will work with my Unilite would you? Appreciate your help.
     

  10. Contact gmc bubba and ask him, he responded here on page 2.
    That's a pretty important bit of info to leave out and a major event between the stand running and instal.
     
  11. aaggie
    Joined: Nov 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,530

    aaggie
    Member

    Rough starting place for the power valve is divide the idle vacuum by two and that is the power valve number.
     
  12. King ford
    Joined: Mar 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,477

    King ford
    Member
    from 08302

    Does your Mallory module require battery voltage in addition to bat voltage to coil? I am familiar with m.s.d. Systems and they required voltage to both, if you find you must run a resistor to the coil make sure your module gets full voltage ( unless you have a print stating otherwise)... And I think you should have 9 or more volts to coil, if you don't it isn't necessarily an intentional im'e dement, how big is your wire to coil? Should be 14 or larger I believe ...good luck when you get her runnin the education you have received tracking it down will benefit us all!
     
  13. 36tudordeluxe
    Joined: Oct 2, 2008
    Posts: 496

    36tudordeluxe
    Member

    No points, it's electronic, 5.62 volts at the coil.
     
  14. You said above your were running a ballast resistor and that the coil had a built in resistor. That sounds like you are reducing the voltage twice.

    "So when I put the engine in the car I went back to the traditional style canister coil and was told I needed a ballast resistor along with the coil so "it wouldn't burn out" the module. With the engine running am only getting 5.62V at the coil but didn't burn out the module so I thought this was the correct fix. So maybe I should try running it without the ballast resistor? The coil is advertised as having a built in resistor"

    I would try it without the resistor.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014
  15. 36tudordeluxe
    Joined: Oct 2, 2008
    Posts: 496

    36tudordeluxe
    Member

    Just did
     
  16. 36tudordeluxe
    Joined: Oct 2, 2008
    Posts: 496

    36tudordeluxe
    Member

    Just got off the phone with Mallory tech.; he says everything I did with the wiring is correct except I have the wrong coil! I have a 29219 when I should have a 29216, ordered another one.
     
  17. bobby_Socks
    Joined: Apr 12, 2006
    Posts: 938

    bobby_Socks
    Member
    from ǑǃƕǑ

    Do you know what the difference is between a 29219 and a 29216 ?
     
  18. 36tudordeluxe
    Joined: Oct 2, 2008
    Posts: 496

    36tudordeluxe
    Member

    Exactly 3! Just kidding, but will find out.
    The real difference: 29216 29219
    51k volts 58K Volts
    Primary resistance 0.7 ohms Primary resistance 1.4 ohms
    Secondary 8.9 K Secondary 9.8 K
    Peak current 180mA Peak current 180 mA
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014
  19. GMC BUBBA
    Joined: Jun 15, 2006
    Posts: 3,420

    GMC BUBBA
    Member Emeritus


    Better get another tech ! Hes wrong !!!!!!!!! Heres what Mallory says about the 29219 ignition coil :

    Designed for Mallory Unilite and Magnetic Breakerless distributors and conversion kits. Not for use with Mallory HYFIRE Electronic Ignition Controls, or any other high energy, inductive storage ignition system.

    Cant tell you how many systems i have repaired because of the 29216 coil !
    The .7 of a ohm is too low and will use approx 20amps when running burning out the module......

    They really need to get some tech help out there !!!!!! :confused:
    Big difference between .7 ohms and 1.4 ohms. 1.4 is what you want ...:eek:

    Be more than happy to ship you the right coil before you decide to burn the car....
     
  20. 36tudordeluxe
    Joined: Oct 2, 2008
    Posts: 496

    36tudordeluxe
    Member

    Have some serious doubts about a 286 at close to 200HP. Not questioning you but the dyno test.
     
  21. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 9,013

    belair
    Member

    Take GMCBubba up on his offer.
     
  22. hotrodtom
    Joined: Apr 14, 2005
    Posts: 231

    hotrodtom
    Member

    I believe the Pertonix I part no. is ML-183. I'm looking at a 10-yr-old catalog that does not have the Pertronix II info with it. Pertronix has a good website and instructons are on their site. My parts boxes are in the garage and I'm not. Good luck, and keep us posted.
    Fearless
     
  23. prpmmp
    Joined: Dec 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,129

    prpmmp
    Member

    To high or to low? Pete
     
  24. GMC BUBBA
    Joined: Jun 15, 2006
    Posts: 3,420

    GMC BUBBA
    Member Emeritus

    Pete,

    We have ran our Bonneville truck flathead on the dyno many times with changes etc.
    Right now we are stuck at 180 hp. Started our adventure at 141 hp made a ton of changes and now have 181 ( not enough to run the record in XF/PP ).
    We now have a 304 cubic inch on the stand and will be tickled to death to see 200 plus horsepower..
     
  25. 36tudordeluxe
    Joined: Oct 2, 2008
    Posts: 496

    36tudordeluxe
    Member

    A little high, basing my opinion on books written by Ol' Ron and JWL who are contributors here on the Barn. In JWL's book he has extensive dyno tests, nothing approaching 200HP.
     
  26. prpmmp
    Joined: Dec 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,129

    prpmmp
    Member

    Just found the wright up! Peak HP was 194.5 at 4,600 RPM with a 3x2 Navarro manifold. Pete
     
  27. prpmmp
    Joined: Dec 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,129

    prpmmp
    Member

    Yeah!! I always wondered how accurate dyno,s were!! Pete
     
  28. GMC BUBBA
    Joined: Jun 15, 2006
    Posts: 3,420

    GMC BUBBA
    Member Emeritus

    We just happen to have a rebuilt flathead ready to go into a 39 Ford 2 dr. next week. The engine is on the dyno stand today...maybe dyno this weekend.??
    Pretty stock engine with 4 inch crank and 40 over new pistons, stromberg 94 etc????

    News as it happens..............
     
  29. GMC BUBBA
    Joined: Jun 15, 2006
    Posts: 3,420

    GMC BUBBA
    Member Emeritus

    Bubba Coil and resistor went out UPS today heading to your door......
     

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