241 Dodge hemi Intermediate shaft HELP!

Early this summer I dis assembled, and cleaned six sets of early chrysler rocker arm set only to find un-godly amounts of dried sludge in the shafts. Most of the shafts were so plugged that only the first two rockers would have got any oil at all. These came off hemis that had not run since the mid sixties(the previous owner tore them down before he shipped off the vietnam). At fifty years old, who knows whats in your rockers.

 

I din't clean the rockers, that's what I have to do then. But do you guys think this is was causing me to have over 80 psi. of oil.

 

You very well might have a pressure relief spring plunger that's stuck, and not relieving pressure...in the pump...

 

I thought I replaced that spring when I rebuilt the pump. But this was almost 3 years ago and now I finaly got around to running the engine. I moved 2 times and I misplaced some of my rebuild parts.

 

It's not the spring that's the problem, it's the plunger that the spring fits into...and the bore it rides in. That's a pretty close tolerance set-up, and it may have flash rusted, have varnish in it, etc. Did you take the pump apart? ...

 

I agree with 345, the piston is a snug fit and can seize if you look at it cross-eyed.... It sounds like the pump needs to come apart, again. If/when you take it apart, don't panic if you cannot move the piston, unless completely rusted it will come out. I'll offer my methods if you get to that point.

You might talk with scooter, he just went through this same issue.

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I want to comment on this... (sorry if I missed some answers here)

ONE... are you running a remote oil filter? If so, are the lines hooked up correctly?

TWO... I agree, you NEED to clean the rocker shafts out! Rather this is part of any of your problem... THIS IS CRITICAL!!! No matter how nice they look, they could be clogged. I just cleaned and reassembled some Chrysler rockers that were SUPER nice looking. Every oil hole in every rocker had crap in it and all four rocker shafts were plugged from one end to the other!!!!! VERY IMPORTANT! While you're at it, inspect the rocker shaft surfaces for wear. If you have deep grooves, have them rebuilt. Don't skimp here unless you just don't care about the longivity of this engine. If surfaces look pretty decent, then just take some 1200 grit and polish the surfaces (including the ID of the bushings). Make sure you keep track of which rocker went where so it gets put back in the same place. Reassemble and check carefully for fit. If they're loose after reassembly, send them out and have them rechromed and rebushed. The end plugs are available from any good shop and should be standard size. To get them out, drill a hole, thread in a super course screw and yank it out with a slide hammer. I made my own to do the job. Be careful not to scratch the shafts.

THREE... Yes! The little oil pump piston must be free-moving in the bore! Very critical!

LAST! Maybe I missed this part... you said you bought a rebuild kit and the rotor shaft was 3/8" short, right?? So this leaves you about 5/8" or so inside the rotor, right? I'm sure moving the shaft and pinning it did the trick, but why didn't you just send back the kit and get the correct one??? Maybe you said why, but I must have missed it if you did. Did I read this right???

 

OH BOY DID I EVER!!!! To get mine out I had to drill it. It's pretty hard stuff too. It gave when the drill bit grabbed at the bottom, but had it not gave, I would have had to thread the bottom of the hole and run a screw in it and pull it that way.

Just make sure you have a back-up plunger if you have to pull it. Get a donor pump if you have to. I had a couple here in the shop. I would have been dead without them. Not sure if it's possible to find the plunger by itself. Maybe it's available or similar to another model of Mopar pump. After getting it out, I inspected the bore, de-burred as needed, checked the fit of the replacement plunger, and back together it went.

The oil system must work 100% in your engine. Do a good job of making sure that happens! No oil = bad things.

 

Not sure if this really helps you with anything, but just in case... This is a diagram for a Chrsyler pump, but it should be similar if not identical construction. Shows what's going on with the plunger.

 

Thanks again for all your advise, I bought the rebuilt kit from Mad Dogg on ebay about 3 years ago and since then the motor has been sitting untill I got all the right parts to get it running. I did not have the original pumpshaft and gear or the box the new one came in. I have moved 3 times since, I would have to go over to my parents house and check there. But I know what I have to do know. I'm going to take the engine apart since it did run about 3 min with that type of oil pressure. I have to double check every thing. the machine shop I used Installed the cam bearings and machined the block. I put the engine together, I gues it's not as eazy as putting a small block together.

 

Gotcha! Okay!

I think the attitude of taking it apart to check on everything is VERY wise! Also, just to be safe, order a rebuild kit from EGGE Machine. They're about $70 or so and it will help you sleep better at night.

Make sure also, that when you reassemble the motor to check all your bearing clearances on your crank and cam. A "loose" main bearing might allow you to lose some flow to your rockers.

73RR probably has the part number for your rocker shaft plugs if your local guy can't find it in his book.

Good luck in your adventure and I think you're doing a good thing by double checking everything if you aren't 100% sure with what's going on and/or what you did 3 years ago. These things are expensive enough to build once. Building it twice is even WORSE!

 

I freed mine by filling the bore with laquer thinner, and gently tapping the plunger in with a drift and hammer. Once it broke free I worked it back and forth against the spring till I could get it out...then sanitized IT and the bore. OH, and DON'T try to increase oil pressure by stretching the spring. Increased oil pressure is NOT necessary...if you've sanitized the rockers, stands, and shafts. Once cleaned up (out) the top end gets PLENTY of oil. The rockers don't have oil continuously pumping out of them like a through-the-pushrod set-up. The rockers get little squirsts of oil when they pass an oil hole in the shaft as they move up and down. The rest of the time, the shaft/rocker gets oiled through a little groove that is machined over the oil hole. All in all it's an excellent system, and is calibrated to put the oil where it needs to be, in the amount it needs, to do the job...

 

Shaft end plugs are 5/8"...availible at any Parts Store. I would advise putting a cotter pin through the holes in each end of the shaft, after you get the plugs tapped in. That way you'll avoid any catastophic lose of oil pressure if a plug decides to pop out...esPECIAlly with 80 lbs of oil pressure...

 

These last couple of days have been killing me since I din't know where to start looking. Now I have the right idea and will gett started, just like Scooter said " It will help me sleep better at night". I will be posting some progress pictures of what I find.
Thanks again guys for all your helpful words. Danny

 

Keep the questions coming!! We're all here to help. There is tons of knowledge here and anyone will be glad to help.

I learned the hard way about not being 100% sure of everything that's going on. I bought a hemi awhile back that had a bottom end rebuild but not a top end rebuild. It was a strange engine and always had a bad feeling about it. Then one day I found the oil was the wrong color. I like a good latte... but not in my oil pan. All 8-cylinders were cracked from careless machining on the part of the previous owners machining decisions. No way I ever would have known without completely taring it down to check before running. Block couldn't have been saved, but at least I never would have bothered with it.

Moral? Make sure you know EXACTLY what's going on with that engine. Old engines are tricky enough to maintane. Having mechanical issues will only make your life suck and get very little enjoyment from what were some of the coolest American made power-plants ever built.

 

Good words Scooter!

 

All right guys heres an up date, its been over 5 months since I;ve posted or worked on my hemi. These last few days I pulled the engine out and started to disassemble the drive train. I have inspected the rocker shaftes and found that oil does flow through them. I removed the heads and checked the oil passage- clear. I then removed the oil pan and oil pump. On the oil pump I found a nut in between the oil pressure spring and the oil pressure valve. I gues to increase oil pressure, I removed it and checked the valve and it does moved smoth. I then removed the cam shaft and checked the alignment of all the oil holes on the cam bearings. I ran a rod through all the oil passages from the top of each bak to the cam. I did find that the last #5 cam bearing was not fully aligned with the block oil hole to I adjusted the bearing. Next I reassembled the bottom end, so what I did was i temporaly installed the pan, I installed the cam and lifters and the oil pressure guage. My theory was that if I could get oil out the block on eather side then oil will go ip to the heads next. Well I primed the oil pump and got 60 psi. one bank got oil out the top then I rotated the engine and the other bank got oil. Man this was a good moment for me. Tonight I;m goung to install the heads and rockers, I will prime the oil system and hope for the best. Any suggestions or advise will really be appreciated.
Thanks Danny

 

Hello Danny..I like a guy that doesn't give up..I stand-up and cheer..Besure to let us know the final results and some pictures..
Good to hear from you was wondering if you where still taking in H2O..LOL..
Duane..

 

Hey Duane Its always good to hear from you, I was wondering if any one was going to read my new post. Scooter any advise?

 

Sounds like you got it covered. Where you said the oil pan was a temp install, like you planning on taking it off again, you might spray some white lithium on the cam where the initial coating of lube may have been rubbed off.

 

I am curious as to how you 'adjusted' the rear cam bearing...

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When the rear cam bearing was installed it was not over the oil hole completly so I used a cam seal installed the same size as the bearing and tapped it in to place. I checked the bearing surface and it was okay. when the cam was installed I added red line cam lube on all the lobes.