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Hot Rods 216 with t5 5 speed ?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 47streamliner, Aug 22, 2016.

  1. 47streamliner
    Joined: Feb 24, 2014
    Posts: 160

    47streamliner
    Member
    from Huntley il

    Sooo here's the situation I had a th350 and a v8 to swap into my 50 Chevy style line . Family needed $ so they went away . I don't know when I'll have the $ to replace them .

    I want a more drivable setup than the original 3 on the tree .I have searched to exhaustion about putting a t5 with the original 216 .

    I found on stovebolt that some one did it with his 51 truck with a 216 . I found a few posts about it being done with a 235 in a car .

    I'm looking for details .

    What year trans did you use

    Did you use a different clutch plate, if so which one ?

    Did use use a different flywheel , if so what flywheel?

    Did you use an adapter plate

    Mechanical or hydro clutch



    Did you :

    do any pedal / linkage mods

    Shifter mods


    I have a Walton engineering trans crossmember that will work with t5 . I have a rear end out of a 56 Chevy ( 3 speed car ) .

    I wanna get the car on the road and do it in the most cost efficient yet correct way possible in spite of the loss of the v8 swap.

    Thanks for any help and info

    Mike



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  2. 47streamliner
    Joined: Feb 24, 2014
    Posts: 160

    47streamliner
    Member
    from Huntley il

  3. Let us know how your project turns out.
    Subscribe
     
  4. 47streamliner
    Joined: Feb 24, 2014
    Posts: 160

    47streamliner
    Member
    from Huntley il

    Definitely - also if anyone near me has a t5 for sale in good shape , hit me up !


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  5. Look for "The Ultimate T5" thread on here, tons of good information.
     
  6. 47streamliner
    Joined: Feb 24, 2014
    Posts: 160

    47streamliner
    Member
    from Huntley il

  7. 47streamliner
    Joined: Feb 24, 2014
    Posts: 160

    47streamliner
    Member
    from Huntley il

    There's a ton of flat head ford info but still some good general info as well


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  8. I have done it, What I did was a '47 216 engine, '58 235 car bell housing with side mount holes drilled and tapped from the factory and no foot starter provision. Use a 49-53 12V starter as it will mesh with the ring gear teeth count. Stock flywheel/pressure plate with an S10 clutch disk (I think it is 10 1/8", but order the disc for the transmission). Cross members are up to you. If you need something else or I left something off PM me.


    NOTES FROM OTHERS:
    I have installed a T5 in a 1941 pass before.
    Any 1948-59 6 cylinder truck bellhousing will work, they have the correct bolt pattern for the T5 and floor start.
    The 41 side mounts on the bellhousing stay the same( these bellhousings are drilled and tapped for them).
    The problem is the trans crossmember is in the way. I sectioned it and moved it back to clear and mount the trans.
    The E' brake linkage will also need to be modified.

    216/235 bellhousing:
    '48-59 truck and '55-62 car will have the correct bolt pattern

    1948-59 truck 235 bellhousings will have the right bolt pattern and will have provision for the foot starter linkage.

    There are no car bellhousings with the combination of foot starter and wide bolt pattern.

    '48-53 version due to the design of the sidemounts.


    Saginaw 4 speed

    No grooves 2.84, 2.01, 1.35, 1.00
    1 groove 2.54, 1.80, 1.44, 1.00
    2 groove 3.11, 2.20, 1.47, 1.00
    3 groove 3.50, 2.47, 1.65, 1.00



    Original 1947 Gear Ratios:

    First gear .......,........... 2.94 to 1

    Second gear................ 1.68 to 1

    Third gear ................. 1 to 1

    Reverse gear ............... 2.94 to 1

    Grease capacity...................1-1/2 pints



    ORIGINAL STARTING 1ST GEAR RATIO 12.08



    Saginaw W/ 3.50 = 10.78


    S10 ratios W/4.03= 12.44

    W/3.76 = 11.58

    1st – 4.03 2nd – 2.37 3rd – 1.49 4th – 1.00 5th – 0.86
    1st – 3.76 2nd – 2.18 3rd – 1.41 4th – 1.00 5th – 0.72

    As a general rule of thumb, regardless of engine, ALL S10 T-5 prior to ’85 received the 4.03 gear set, while ALL S10 T-5 after ’86 got the 3.76 gearset. The “S10” T-5 was also available in the equivalent GMC T-truck.

    The speedometer changed to electronic with the ’90 model year, however, some ’89 model T5 came with electronic speedos if they were equipped with the optional digital dash. These can prove problematic for swaps, but output shafts & tail housings can be swapped with cable-driven speedo models

    Want 1992 or older transmission…….as early as 1982



    If not, try to find the 3.11 gear unit first, with the 2.85 as second pick. The 3.11 gear w/ your 3.70 rear axle, will give you an effective 11.5:1 ratio, which will get you moving pretty good. The 2.85 would yield 10.5:1, which is still not bad.
     
  9. 47streamliner
    Joined: Feb 24, 2014
    Posts: 160

    47streamliner
    Member
    from Huntley il

    Hmm hadn't thought about 12v or 6v being an issue .

    Mine is still 6v is that going to cause an issue ?

    Didn't think it would if I'm using the stock flywheel .


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  10. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,329

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have done a couple 235's with a 1342-145 S10 T5, which has the 3.76:1 first gear set.

    Stock bellhousing. Hot Rod Works adapter.

    Aftermarket shifter. No clutch linkage mods. Walton Fab crossmember, or one I made.

    Do you know the axle ratio of what you are going to use?
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2016
  11. 47streamliner
    Joined: Feb 24, 2014
    Posts: 160

    47streamliner
    Member
    from Huntley il

  12. 47streamliner
    Joined: Feb 24, 2014
    Posts: 160

    47streamliner
    Member
    from Huntley il

    What's a 1345 out of - I was told all NWC non electric speedo s10 t5s started with 1352


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  13. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,329

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    An S10 T5 with the 4.03 gear set plus that rear gives you a combined first gear of: 13.02:1

    An S10 T5 with the 3.76 gear set plus that rear gives you a combined first gear of: 12.14:1

    While the second one is closer to the original ratio, the 216 might be lugging with the overdrive in that gear set.
     
  14. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,329

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Typo. ALL T5's start with 1352, regardless if they are WC or NWC, or what speedometer they have.
     
  15. 47streamliner
    Joined: Feb 24, 2014
    Posts: 160

    47streamliner
    Member
    from Huntley il

    I was afraid the 4.03 1st gear would be a way low granny gear


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  16. 47streamliner
    Joined: Feb 24, 2014
    Posts: 160

    47streamliner
    Member
    from Huntley il

    Good to know


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  17. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,329

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Also, all T5's used in GM vehicles from 1993-on have the FORD bellhousing pattern, are WC, and if S10 (which I think were the only ones) have the 4.03 gear set.
     
  18. 47streamliner
    Joined: Feb 24, 2014
    Posts: 160

    47streamliner
    Member
    from Huntley il

    So the 4.03 1st gear t5 the 5th gear will be a reasonably usable gear ?


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  19. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,329

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Unless my math is wrong, it is 6.7% lower.
     
  20. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,329

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    With that gear set, a 3.23:1 that will give you a combined top gear of 2.77:1.

    Still at tall order for a 216, but as long as you don't put super tall tires on it it should pull it.

    If you ran the other gear set, your combined top gear would be 2.33:1.

    Not too sure the 216 will like that.
     
  21. jlckmj
    Joined: Oct 28, 2008
    Posts: 59

    jlckmj
    Member

    I put a 1988 S10-T5 that had the 4.03 1st gear in my 52.
    My car has a 235 but still has the old 216 bell housing, just like yours.
    I used the original clutch pedal and linkage set up.
    I used a Vintage Metal works adapter to mate the two.
    Still had to shorten the tip of the input shaft about 3/8th of an inch.
    I used the 9.1 inch original flywheel and a S10 clutch and pressure plate.
    I cut the old cross member out and welded two pieces of 1 1/2 inch plate where I cut the cross member and bolted some 1 1/2 inch by 2 inch tube in between for a removable cross member.
    I used a S10 4x4 3.42 rear end.
    I had a driveshaft made.

    The Chevy Talk board has a lot of info on the T5 swap.

    ALSO, here is a great web site, it has just about everything you would need as far as info goes. Lugnutz has spent a boat load of time putting it together. http://lugnutz65chevystepside.weebly.com/t5-info-page.html

    You will absolutely love the 6cyl and the 5 speed, obviously it's not a race car but the T5 makes the car much more responsive, seems like it is always in the right RPM range. I turn 2,000 RPM at 65MPH with my 29 inch tires.

    Good luck, Jim
    Send me a personal message off board if you need any other info.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2016
  22. 47streamliner
    Joined: Feb 24, 2014
    Posts: 160

    47streamliner
    Member
    from Huntley il

    Jim thank you for all the good info !

    You are actually some what near by , I'm in a NW burb of Chicago .

    I think I will take you up on the additional question offer .



    Are you going to iron invasion down here in Woodstock IL ?


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  23. 47streamliner
    Joined: Feb 24, 2014
    Posts: 160

    47streamliner
    Member
    from Huntley il

  24. 47streamliner
    Joined: Feb 24, 2014
    Posts: 160

    47streamliner
    Member
    from Huntley il

  25. RMONTY
    Joined: Jan 7, 2016
    Posts: 2,204

    RMONTY
    Member

    I found mine on CL for $250. I had been looking for a couple months before I found it.
     
  26. 47streamliner
    Joined: Feb 24, 2014
    Posts: 160

    47streamliner
    Member
    from Huntley il

    I can find a few with the electronic speedo - but zero with mechanical speedo


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  27. jcmarz
    Joined: Jan 10, 2010
    Posts: 4,633

    jcmarz
    Member
    from Chino, Ca

    You're better off changing your differential gear ratio to 3:55 and keeping the 3 speed. The 216 will be more happy.
     
  28. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,329

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'd probably go all the way to 3.73:1, and run a 3.76:1 gearset T5.
     
  29. jlckmj
    Joined: Oct 28, 2008
    Posts: 59

    jlckmj
    Member

    Yes, mechanical speedo

    No, unfortunately no on Woodstock.

    As far as speedo goes, you can buy a GPS speedo reasonably now days, OR, you could down load the app for your phone and get free GPS SPEEDO, just get a holder for your phone while you drive. I use mine like that all the time.

    Here is another option, you can convert the electric speedo tail section to a mechanical one.
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/s10-t5-tail-housings.968162/

    Jim
     

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