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Hot Rods 1964 Ford Fairlane P/S Control Valve issue

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by vtx1800, Jul 14, 2021.

  1. vtx1800
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 1,380

    vtx1800
    Member

    Trying to bring back a car that sat for over twenty years ain't easy for me. The current issue is a leaky control valve, I purchased and installed a rebuild kit, followed a decent youtube video on how to do it as well as reading the instructions. Finally fired the car up after refurbishing the fuel system and the power steering works great except for the leak around the boot.
    I pulled it off and looked it over but.....what could it be that I missed in the rebuild? I would have guessed that the power steering fluid stays in the cast iron housing and none would migrate to the ball stud area. I was wrong.
    What have I missed?
    Edit........
    When I disassembled it (because it was leaking) the internals were all nice and...well not clean but well oiled from the leak, I guess, no rust at all which is evidently a problem in some cases.
    Thanks!! It's even a 289:) IMG_3854.JPEG IMG_3855.JPEG
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2021
  2. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 2,552

    oldiron 440
    Member

    I wish I could help but I removed the PS from mine, it still steers with one finger.
     
  3. vtx1800
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 1,380

    vtx1800
    Member

    @oldiron 440 you have a stronger finger than me:) I had a 63 Fairlane hardtop that I thought it steered ok (I'd never driven a car with power steering) but my first wife complained that it was,,, but she was kinda wimpy. I wish this car didn't have power steering, one less thing to fix. Wish it had two less doors.
     
  4. BLACKNRED
    Joined: May 8, 2010
    Posts: 339

    BLACKNRED
    Member

    How much does it leak ?

    I have 2 early 60's Chevs with a similar steering setup, had a similar issue trying to rebuild one of the valves, went and bought a whole new valve problem solved, also I do not use Transmission fluid in my power steering pumps, I use 68 weight Hydraulic oil, I think it is equivalent to SAE 20, but not entirely sure, but I get really good feel through the steering wheel, I get an odd drop of oil leaking from both cars, have been using this oil for over 10 years. Every one I talk to complains about ram power steering, but I couldn't be happier, great around town, great on the open road.

    I suspect though in my case and yours you probably nicked one of the seals putting it back together.

    just edited the reply, I use 68 hydraulic oil not 46.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2021
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  5. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 10,286

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I rebuilt my 56 3 times. Twice by a shop and once by me. I have the overhaul manual and followed the instruction and the illustration photo. There is a seal on the spool on each side I’m sure you installed the new ones. On the one that exits the cast iron on that shaft, the seal on that side leaks the ps fluid can get into the movable “ball” housing where your boot shows a leak.
    If found a guy on e-bay who sold “quad” seals for each end of the spool and my leaks were solved. If you ever watch that car show from England, the tall guy Ed China, repaired a 55-56 T-bird on the car by changing to the quad seals. Mine has not leaked in 9 years now. The guy was in central California I’ll look and see if I kept any info.
     
  6. vtx1800
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 1,380

    vtx1800
    Member

    @jimmy six that info would be wonderful, I'll do some searches too, THANKS!!
     
  7. guthriesmith
    Joined: Aug 17, 2006
    Posts: 5,839

    guthriesmith
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. H.A.M.B. Chapel

    Yep, I could use that info too! Thanks! I have leaks on both my 56 and my Thunderbird and have been thinking of trying to fix them.
     
  8. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 3,072

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    [​IMG]
    Did you use this, the control valve eliminator?
     
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  9. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 2,552

    oldiron 440
    Member

    No I replaced the drag link but those work.
     
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  10. vtx1800
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 1,380

    vtx1800
    Member

    @jimmy six was hoping that you found a place to access those quad seals??
     
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  11. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 10,286

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Been 9 yrs. I’ll be looking tomorrow. Spent the last 2 weeks solving an oil pump problem.
     
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  12. deathrowdave
    Joined: May 27, 2014
    Posts: 2,751

    deathrowdave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NKy

    Toss the power steering , it’s not the best design . I hated the leaks after rebuilding the ones I had owned . Threw the leaking stuff in the trash and never looked back.
     
    kabinenroller likes this.
  13. MeanGene427
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 1,963

    MeanGene427
    Member
    from Napa

    Man, I haven't seen a quad ring in a while- used to be a lot of them on CAT stuff, and they work pretty well- most old HDR's have a boxful of leftover o-rings, quad rings etc. in their tool truck to pick thru. One should be able to go to any industrial hydraulic shop that does cylinders, hoses etc., give them your assembly to measure, and find seals by size instead of application
     
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  14. dalesnyder
    Joined: Feb 6, 2008
    Posts: 484

    dalesnyder
    Member

    Mcmaster Carr sells the quad rings. In their catalog they call them`X` Rings..
    They are in the o- ring section.
     
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  15. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 10,286

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    OK here's what I have. Remember this is for a 1956 unit and yours may be different as I know they changed with newer models.

    I bought the seals from a gentleman in Morro Bay California. When I received them there was a large and small seal. I wrote him that my spool seal ends were the same size. He said no sweat someone had machined the large end because it was bad to the small end size...a typical fix in the old days. He sent me the small seal in an envelop and it's all I have and no note was inside.

    The return address is TUR 364 Quintana RD #B Morro Bay Ca. 93442 The envelop was post dated DEC 2014 .

    I originately bought these from E-Bay and unfortunately they only go back 3 years unless you can figure out another way.

    DaleSnyder states above concerning quad seals and the ID and OD along with the width was mic'ed this is another way. Also the trelleborg.com site lists quad seals.

    Good Luck.
     
  16. vtx1800
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 1,380

    vtx1800
    Member

    @jimmy six THANKS for your efforts on this, I appreciate you having taken the time to resurrect old info:) Do you remember if the seals you used had the lip as the org do (at least on mine)? If you don't remember...I understand..I can't remember where I laid that wrench I used two minutes ago:(
    I miked both ends of the spool valve, right at .500 or .4985 at the low end variance. I didn't polish the surface and I should have before I assembled it.. They looked clean...but looking at it again I should have polished/cleaned the surface where the seal rides.
    this picture is after I polished it with 2000 grit paper
    IMG_3864.JPEG
    here is the appearance before polish
    IMG_3858.JPEG
     
  17. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 10,286

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have a 1956 overhaul manual and set in front of me when it took it apart. I laid out each item and never changed them on the blue paper shop paper towels. As I remember the end one (left side) that I took out was conical and the lip was to the inside. Remember this was 9 years ago and the control valve was professionally rebuilt bu a steering/brake shop in Orange Ca. There was a washer and a spring under the end cap.

    Looking at the reply above about McMaster-Carr and having a set of calipers and mics, I would definitely check sizing today and find the ID-OD and width closet to one listed. Ford bought parts and did not specifically built an item like this. I buy wiper blades from Danchuk tri-5 Chevrolet supplier because I can get the stock ones Ford used.

    I remember putting the new seals in the exact spot the old ones were and put all the remaining parts exactly where they had been. It never has leaked again.
    About 5 years ago the ram started leaking. I could never find a correct seal for it, bought the bullet, bought a Chinese one which I understand cannot ne rebuilt because of the seal they used. So far it has not leaked.

    The original thread is for a much newer control valve that were available; as I understand many Fords use them, Mustangs, Fairlanes, Cougars, etc. good luck.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
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  18. vtx1800
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 1,380

    vtx1800
    Member

    No solution but an interesting story. I went into Google maps to check the address jimmysix had given me and found an electrical company was now at the same address. I took a chance and called them, they told me that the company that was in their location in 2014 had moved and what their name was, Old Soul Speed and Custom, so I called them. They had a guy that worked out of their shop back then..... but they had a parting of ways, an acrimonious parting of ways:( So that was a dead end.
     
  19. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 10,286

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Sorry to hear that it’s the ways of old cars it seams. If mine ever leaks against I am going to try and match the seal with the X ones listed in McMaster. I will say with the manual right in front of and the the blow apart illustration it was really easy and nothing to be afraid of at all.
     
  20. vtx1800
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 1,380

    vtx1800
    Member

    I may have it fixed, I purchased a second kit but this time I chucked the spool valve in a lathe and started with 2000 grit sand paper and WD40 and then went to rubbing compound with cloth, they polished up better than what you see here (I neglected to take an "after" picture.) I did find a small nick on the end that I hit another time with polish and hopefully after turning the wheel back and forth a few times I didn't find any power steering fluid dripping from the assembly. Now...new brushes in the generator...........then a transmission that doesn't work:( Thanks for the help and suggestions. IMG_3863.JPEG
     
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