I was driving my 58 Edsel the other day and I noticed that the oil pressure was now at 1 or 2 pounds at idle. Typically the pressure is at 25 while at idle. There was not any engine noise so I am thinking that maybe there is a problem with the gauge or the tube from the sending unit. I am going to check the line but might try a different gauge if that does not work. Some Facts: The oil is maybe 2 months old and has 500 miles on it. The engine is a 361 with 54,000 miles backed by a 3speed auto. The car runs good and is not noisey. There has always been a small amount of lifter noise...but just barely and it has not changed at all since the pressure dropped. Questions: If it is not the gauge, wouldn't the engine make a lot or some noise with only 1-2 psi? I thought I read that Edsels have a pour oiling system and there are tricks to improve them. Does anyone know these tricks or where to find them? Would this be my oil pump going out or something different? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Does that engine have a spin on oil filter ? If so, what brand are you running ? There have been instances where a filter will collapse internally (Fram most notably) and drop the oil pressure. Try the easy, cheap thing first, change to a Wix or similar filter and see what happens. It also could be your sender or gauge. If the filter doesn't help, go to Advance Auto and buy one of their $15 direct reading mechanical oil pressure gauges, remove your old sender, and use some 1/8 NPT brass Ace Hardware fittings to screw the new gauge right into that hole. That will tell you what oil pressure you really have. That happened to me driving my 27 one night, oil pressure went from 60 to zero. I went home and screwed in a mechanical gauge and found out my sender had crapped out. Hope that is all you have going on too. Don
Engines do not need a lot of oil pressure on the idle. What does the gauge read when the car is on the road at say 30 mph? While it is of concern that the oil pressure has dropped on the idle what the oil pressure does under working conditions at higher rpm's is more important however it would be wise to work out the reasons for the drop sooner rather than later. Please let us know what you find - inquiring minds need satisfaction
Agree, start with gauge* and filter. Next step in worrying would be sludge or other failure of pump pickup. Someone on here did a tech article on blueprinting MEL oiling systems...as I recall the main focus was on the oil passages running from one casting to the next, opening up the apertures to correct inaccurate mating. *if gauge is electric, likely culprit would be ground...test by running a test wire from body of sender to battery ground and see if gauge wakes up.
Edsels do not have a poor oiling system. The 361 is an FE engine, which in various configurations and displacements has logged billions of miles worldwide in everything from race cars, Passenger cars, trucks and industrial applications. Though not without its falts, it was (is) a good design. Diagnosis, the first thing I would do is remove the oil pressure sending unit and temporarily install a mechanical guage. That wiil tell you right there if you really have a problem. Since the car has low miles and since the problem happend suddenly my money is on the sending unit. Factory electrical guages are notriously inacurate.Some cars don't have alot of pressure at idle and yes if it only had two psi it ould be rattling. The important thing is that when you raise the rpms, the pressure should go up accordingly. Also the type and weight of oil will effect the presure reading as well.The older cars have looser clearances and thus require heavier oil. Nothing thinner than a 10w40, or a straight 30, unless the vehicle is exposed to extremely cold temps, then a 10w30 would be ok. Do not run any of the new 5w30 ro 5/20 as they are too thin.You really should be runnig an oil with zinc too as you have flatt tappets. Valvoline VR-1 racing is good as are many others. Some Lucas oil or STP is good too. Hope this helps,let us know how it turns out.
There is a spin on filter and I believe I am running a Fram. I typically use Wix on my old cars but maybe the parts stor was out so I figured I would try a Fram. As for the gauge goes it is an aftermarket mechanical gauge that I bought from NAPA in the three gauge cluster with temp and volt or amp...can't remember. Good idea regarding the direct pressure gauge...Thanks!
Thanks Bruce! I will look for the article to have on hand just in case I need to do a rebuild later down the road. I plan on keeping the car for years to come. It makes a great family cruiser and the wife and kids love it so it's a keeper!
Thanks for the feed back. Good info on the oil! I use 10w 40 and use one quart of the Lucas oil additive but did not in this oil change...just 10x40. Going to change the oil and filter along with adding the direct gauge like Don suggested to see what pressure I have. I know the FE's are solid engines...I just thought a read something about the oiling systems...maybe it was how to improve it...not sure I will probably do this Thursday or this weekend so I will report back as soon as I'm done
Ok... I have had this happen so I will chime in.. FIRST get that mech oil pressure gauge hooked up and see if your at 2lbs at idle..... DROP YOUR PAN.... Fords oil pumps all that I have ever seen have a cotter pin holding the pressure regulator mech in... If that cotter pin shears off the pin slides out and drops oil pressure... I have had 3 fords all have this same problem and the fix is slightly drill out the cotter pin hole clamp the pressure control pin back in and put a larger cotter pin in the orig holes to hold it in... I never put a ford oil pump in without doing this to them now... Hope this helps... Just looked up the 361 oil pump and it appears to not have the cotter pin... still check that oil pump out or just replace it...
Buy another brand filter and get rid of that Fram. There have been hundreds or more stories posted about how crappy they are all over the internet. They use cardboard inside and collapse.Our local Advance Auto has one cut open on display and a 6 year old could build better internals than that filter has............cheap cheap cheap. Just to be safe and rule out any potential issues, I would spring for a really good filter like a WIX, Purolator, or even a more expensive K and N. We use the Lucas Zinc additive too in our non roller cam motors, great stuff. Don
WHen I frist time started my edsels freshly repaired engine, it sounded good.. But after few days, idle started to sound like clap-clap-clap-clap-clap-clap-clap every lifter were almost dry ??? more than 1000 rpm sounded fine. Old oil were 10-30 and AC filter. Then I put Gulf 20w-50 Zinc plus oil & FL1A, clap-clap-clap-clap-clap-clap-clap noises went away.
Good info. How does your Edsel do on cold starts in regards to oil pressure and noise? Mine takes a second or two before it builds up and quiets down. Drives me nuts! By the way...nice Edsel!
So I changed the oil and filter. Went with a Wix filter and 4 gts of oil with a quart of Lucas oil additive. Pressure is still low-according to my gauge. Going to get a small mech gauge to hook up right on the engine and see if it changes. I do have another question though...when I start my car i do notice that it takes maybe 3 seconds before the oil pressure builds up but during the first 3 seconds there is some noise. Is this a sign of my oil pump going bad or is this typical? I am new to FE engines so I am not aware of their characteristics.
I have seen this a couple of times and it turned out to be the oil pump pressure relief valve was stuck in the open "bypass" position, allowing most of the pressure to be dumped back into the pan. Both times I found this problem it was after the driver (a teen age son in one case) had revved the engine pretty high racing and the pressure relief valve in the oil pump had stuck in the open "bypass" position. Remove the oil pump bottom plate(or where ever the bypass is)and check that the spring is closing it and it slides freely in it's bore. I wouldn't drive it much until you figure it out. Good luck!
Thanks for the info. i am going to try mounting a gauge right at the engine and see if its the gauge first...if that's not it then the oil pump is coming out. I do not rev or run the car hard but the car did just come out of a 10 year hibernation...not sure if that would contribute to anything. I will post what I find.
First thing, If you want to keep your motor alive get that FRAM off of there, they are ALL total shit and not a good one in the bunch.
UPDATE: Changed the oil and put a wix filter in, removed the gauge and blew the line out with 25 PSI from the air compressor, blew the gauge at 25 PSI of air and it read 25 PSI so I know the gauge is working somewhat accurate. My plan now is to replace the oil pump. When I looked I believe that Mac's sold them for $40. MY NEW QUESTION: I have never replaced an oil pump in an Edsel or FE engine before. Is there anything else that I should replace while doing the repair? The plan is to remove the pan and replace the pump. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
So I figured out my problem. Oil pump pick up is pretty clogged. Got a new pump and cleaned up the pick up. The engine only has 54,000 miles. It seems like previous owners did not change the oil regularly or something. She runs good and has good compression so I have confidence in this engine. Putting new timing chain, freeze plugs and gaskets/seal while the engine is out. Also painting the engine compartment and engine too. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Putting new main, rod and can bearings while I'm at it. Going to have a machine shop hone the cylinders and I will put new rings too. As for the heads, goi g to pull them apart and clean, lap the valves and put back together. That's the plan until/unless I find other problems to fix. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
You have covered most of the areas of concern on the old FE motor. One thing you might want to do is replace the rather thin stock oil pump drive with one from milidon. You can get them through Summit Racing or Jegs. Do not buy one from Ford Motorsport, the last ones that I purchased from them were made offshore. They had a slightly undersized hex that would jam in the distributor end. The oiling mods you spoke of include opening up the oil passage from the oil pump to the oil filter housing with a 7/16" drill bit and matching the main bearing oil holes in the block to the main bearings. If you fit the main bearings in the block you will see that the oil hole in the block does not line up with the hole in the bearing. You can correct that with a proper sized drill bit and a dremel tool. If you do any mods that is the best one to do. Check your rocker shafts to make sure that they are not galled to death from dirty oil and you can limit the oil to the rocker area by simply dropping a holley carb main jet into the oiling hole that is under the rocker stand on each side of the motor. If I remember correctly I used to drill the jet to .090 and drop it in, once the rocker stand is bolted back in place the jet is trapped. The reason for this is because these motors delivered a little to much oil to the top of the motor which could challenge the valve seals and keep oil from the main and rod bearings. These motors have notoriously low oil pressure at hot idle, like 10 to 15 psi. That is fine if you go by the 10 lbs per 1000 rpm rule but I like to see a little more. So what I do is knock the plug out of the pump that contains the oil pressure relief spring and either shim it with a small washer or stretch the spring a touch then reinstall. Also when reinstalling that 100 lb. intake manifold do no use the cork (or any) end seals that seal the top of the block between the heads. Many of these motors have been machined and those gaskets can cause the manifold to "stand off " the intake face on the heads just enough to let them suck oil out of the lifter valley. Instead put a nice bead of black RTV in place of the gaskets and you will have no issues. Pete
Pete. Thanks for the tips. I read about the hole from the pump to the block but never heard of the main holes. Makes since though because the hole in the main bearings is almost twice the size of the main holes. Thanks again! Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
FoMoCo cars of that era had a small constant voltage regulator behind the instrument cluster This kept the oil press gauge & water temp gauge reading correctly even when the 12volt supply voltage was varying. If the temp gauge is reading low also,that volt reg is faulty. that reg is aprox 1" by 2" & has push on wire terminals. If only the press is low its probably the oil gauge sender. Greg
Thought that this had a weird pattern. Then looked at the back of the bearing and saw something was sandwiched between the bearing and the block. My 5 and 6 year old helping me clean the block. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Incredibly odd to have any wear on the top shell. No charge for the extra material. With the copper showing through, the crank must have not spun at all during assembly. How does the journal look?
Surprisingly the journal looks good. This came from the factory like that too. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
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