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Technical 1955 Pontiac Safari Motor Mounts?????

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by GreaserJosh13, Apr 20, 2019.

  1. GreaserJosh13
    Joined: May 27, 2013
    Posts: 447

    GreaserJosh13
    Member
    from Chino

    Hey Guys. I’ve got a 1955 Pontiac Safari. It came with the original #’s matching motor, but no trans. The original motor is disassembled & missing some of its components. I have a complete 1957 Pontiac 347 & trans that was running when removed from a Pontiac star Chief.
    -Is it really worth rebuilding the numbers matching motor & installing?
    -should I even mess with the 347?
    -or should I go with something a little more modern for drivability?
    Thanks[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
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  2. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,547

    BJR
    Member

    Keep the original motor but use the newer one in the car. If you ever sell it the next guy may want it.
     
  3. As BJR said.Put that poncho back on the road.Like em better than the chevys:eek:.
     
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  4. KoolKat-57
    Joined: Feb 22, 2010
    Posts: 2,784

    KoolKat-57
    Member
    from Dublin, OH

    The '57 347 and the hydromatic that is with it are better than the original on both accounts.
    Put them in and enjoy your Safari!
    I have a '57 IMG_0430.JPG
    KK
     
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  5. GreaserJosh13
    Joined: May 27, 2013
    Posts: 447

    GreaserJosh13
    Member
    from Chino

    Doesn’t get much more obvious than this. Too bad the whole thing is in a million pieces & obviously out of the car for a very long time. Any suggestions on how to keep this thing stored all together & as compact as possible???. [​IMG][​IMG]
     
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  6. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 3,464

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    Another vote for the 347, Pontiac was well on it's way to legendary performance status by then. Grab the rear axle from the '57 also if you still can. Nice car, mister.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
  7. GreaserJosh13
    Joined: May 27, 2013
    Posts: 447

    GreaserJosh13
    Member
    from Chino

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


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  8. AngleDrive
    Joined: Mar 9, 2006
    Posts: 638

    AngleDrive
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Florida

    Buy a small roll around engine dolly that has legs that support the engine from the oil pan rail. Put big pieces back on engine with a couple of bolts. Oil pan, heads, exhaust manifolds, intake manifold, front timing cover, valve covers. Cover crank journals with grease, put in plastic bag and stand it on end. Throw the rest of the stuff in a box and roll it under your bench. Don't bother to clean anything. Save it for the next owner. Install your other motor and trans. Go have fun.
     
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  9. wvenfield
    Joined: Nov 23, 2006
    Posts: 4,669

    wvenfield
    Member

    Install the 347. There really isn't a good way to store an engine like this. Hopefully you have somewhere to stick it out of the way.
     
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  10. partsdawg
    Joined: Feb 12, 2006
    Posts: 2,314

    partsdawg
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Minnesota

    You can be driving it a lot sooner if you install the 347.
     
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  11. khead47
    Joined: Mar 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,529

    khead47
    Member

    55 gallon drum with enough drain oil to cover engine and parts.
     
  12. Nice find. I have a friend with a Safari, but he bought the car with no engine. He restored the interior as close to stock as possible, and installed a wicked 455.
    The critical thing on the engine storage, is to keep everything dry. I have my Chevy 427 heads, block and pan on an engine stand, and all the other parts are in two boxes. It has been stored that way for over 10 years, and everything still looks good. Make certain that the box with the accessories and internal parts is clearly labelled. I have some of my stuff in wooden boxes that I made, which makes the parts much less likely to be damaged.
    I had never considered the idea of putting the engine in a 45 gallon drum and covering it with oil, but that is intriguing because the oil would probably soften the surface rust and make the engine easier to clean when the time came to restore it.
    Bob
     
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  13. Todd553
    Joined: Feb 16, 2005
    Posts: 461

    Todd553
    Member

    I'd go with the 347, but I'd use a 55 hydro. They are fairly easy to find. If you use that combo you can use the same motor mounts and cross member. Also if you use the 347 with the 57 hydro you will have to change the drive shaft. You can use the 55 drive shaft with the 55 hydro and 57 347. Use the 55 bellhousing and torus with the 347. I have a 59, 389 in my 57 with a 55 B&M Hydrostick.
    IMG_0846 2.jpg IMG_0845.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
  14. WOW that looks like a lot of work. I will stick to body work and paint.As you know I LOVE station wagons. Good luck with her. Bruce.
     
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  15. GreaserJosh13
    Joined: May 27, 2013
    Posts: 447

    GreaserJosh13
    Member
    from Chino

    So I know this probably isn’t the place to ask this, but would any of you guys consider installing an LmnopqrS. Give me your reasons for and against doing this. It seems like everyone that does one really likes it.


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  16. GreaserJosh13
    Joined: May 27, 2013
    Posts: 447

    GreaserJosh13
    Member
    from Chino

    I would have never thought of doing this, but it’s definitely intriguing.


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
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  17. GreaserJosh13
    Joined: May 27, 2013
    Posts: 447

    GreaserJosh13
    Member
    from Chino

    Also do any of you guys have an extra drive shaft I could buy off if you. That’s one thing I’m gonna need. I have half of the original drive shaft. I guess the previous owner cut it in half & was going to use it for a swap. He was planning on putting a Diesel engine & marching trans in it.


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  18. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 5,597

    56sedandelivery
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'm with Todd 553 in using the 347 and the 55 Dual Range Hydra-Matic, and NOT the 57 Dual Coupling Hydra-Matic.
    I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
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  19. Butch,
    Back in 59-60, I ran a dual range hydra-matic out of a 53 Olds and loved that tranny.
    I didn't realize that the transmission I used from a 59 394 Olds for a different swap, was a dual coupled hydra-matic. I liked that transmission as well, and felt that it shifted more smoothly than my 53 dual range unit. The fact that I was using it in a vehicle that was more than 1000 lbs lighter would lead me to believe that was why I didn't have any problem with it.
    I didn't realize there were so many substantially different versions of the Hydra-Matic,
    Bob
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
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  20. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 5,597

    56sedandelivery
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    They were designed to be the "smoothest" shifting of all the available automatic transmissions, up until that point in time. Many of the clutch and band assemblies, that previously were used to shift a transmission, have been deleted in favor of an additional fluid coupling (trans had 2 of those, therefore Dual Coupling), and one way sprag clutch assemblies were used instead of bands. Pontiac called them the Strato-Flight, Olds the Jetaway (that name got used with various Olds transmissions), and even American Motors used them (Flash-O-Matic I think). Sort of reminds me of silent running submarines for some reason, because they shifted so smooth. Not at all lent itself to building for racing. I did see one in the later 70's at Bremerton Raceway in a full size, Titantic sized, Pontiac (run what ya brung I guess); it blew something up shortly after launch, and the driver continued to "race", and oil down the entire right lane, all the way through the quarter mile and beyond (on a 5000 foot long runway). And the guy had driven the car to the track; I don't know how he got home. So, not a racing transmission, and were no where near the toughness of the previous Dual Range Hydro. Made of a cast iron case, with an aluminum extension housing, and I always thought they were overly complicated with way too many small parts. Probably the only good thing about them was, they also had a rear pump, so they could be push started if needed. Not a transmission repair/rebuild guy, and I expect someone will absolutely love them here on the HAMB. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
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  21. Butch,
    Thanks for the information. I never ran that truck on the strip, so I can't say whether it would have been a problem or not. It worked really well for me as a street only transmission behind a stock 394 in a 53 Mercury 1/2 ton.
    Bob
     
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  22. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 5,597

    56sedandelivery
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    ^^^The Dual Range Hydro, is by far, the better transmission, and was the basis for the B & M Hydro-Stick, as well as many other race trans builders.^^^ In high school (66-69) I knew a guy who's Father drag raced Hudsons. His tow rig was a 53 Ford P/U Truck with a B & M Hydro-Stick behind a built 394 Olds; it also had some pretty low rear end gearing, but I don't remember what they were. Three of us were out cruising one night in the truck, and stopped at a traffic light; in the other lane was a brand new, 1968, Plymouth Road Runner. Course there was some revving up and posturing going on. Light goes green, and the Road Runner was left far behind, and had no chance of catching up. Pretty sure he was a little embarrassed getting beat by an old truck. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
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  23. 56safarindrive.jpg After having both engines and transmissions in several [11] different 55-57 Pontiacs, I'd use the 347 with the early [55, early 56] transmission. I never liked the later "gooey go" transmissions in 56 star chiefs and later Pontiacs.
    Or, you could go completely off the rails and use a 58-60 stick bellhousing with a 4 speed behind that 347.
    I'm using a 347 in my coupe [avatar] bored .125" to 370 [same engine in the 58 Pontiacs] with a 59 stick bellhousing and a Muncie 4 speed. What fun!
    My old running buddy from Portland Oregon had a 55 safari with a 60, 389, [bolt-in] original 1955, 4 speed hydro and he grafted 55 chevy Nomad rear wheel wells on it....Very tasty. For your viewing pleasure I'll included a sketch I made for my 56 safari using the nomad wheel wells...just something to think about.
    If you're worrying about ruining the value of your safari with these modifications, keep in mind 1955 Pontiac safaris aren't' very rare. Only a little over 1200 1957s made but I'd hack up a 55 to suit me in a heartbeat. 56safariart.jpg
     
  24. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 7,991

    belair
    Member

    Put whatever engine you like in it. The 347/hydro would be killer. The value of those cars isn't very dependent on the original engine. But I too would store it in a 55 gallon drum of old oil. Having the original engine might help a potential buyer bite later.
     
  25. Use the 347. If you have the 55 trans use it. If not why not get a stick 58 or 59 car bell or a 55 thru 55 truck bell andput a stick shift in it. you altready have a rear driveshaft problem. just swap in a better rear end. The 55 four bbl intake you have is a bit hard to find.
     
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  26. Todd553
    Joined: Feb 16, 2005
    Posts: 461

    Todd553
    Member

    For what it's worth listen to Butch/56 sedandelivery and Rocky. Both have been a great resource and wealth of knowledge for me. Not to hijack the thread, but thanks guys. As my Dad used to say, "just gotta pay attention"
     
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  27. You need one of these. This one came from a 59 Ambulance with the heavy duty T-85, 3 speed. Muncie 4 speed bolts up to it. It's in my 34 coupe. 60pontbellhousing1.jpg 60pontbellhousing.jpg
     
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  28. GreaserJosh13
    Joined: May 27, 2013
    Posts: 447

    GreaserJosh13
    Member
    from Chino

    I wouldn’t say there not rare. I don’t think you see one driving down the street everyday & Ive been to many a car show where I’ve never seen one. I see a crap tone of Nomads. Probably 6-10 at every car show I go to, but maybe that’s just because Nomads are what is liked by the masses. Kind of like Camaro’s & Chevelles. Everybody wants one. I found this stat on a Pontiac Safari website just for comparison.
    IMG_7154.JPG


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  29. Point taken. Maybe because I'm a Pontiac guy VS a chevy guy I see more of the Pontics. I dunno but numbers don't lie. I'd still weld a pair of Nomad wheel openings into my 55-56 Pontiac Safari.
     
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  30. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 13,854

    alchemy
    Member

    Josh, you’re on a hot rod and custom website, what do you think we are going to tell you to do? Of course modify that car.

    If you are weak, use a modern motor. If you have good taste and a big pair, build a strong vintage Poncho and step on it!
     
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