Well I've worked up about 5 different mounts and nothing really works/looks right... So I'll put it to the group... I've got a steering box out of a 40 Ford... I wanted to run it because it's solid, I have it, and I like the fact that the arm will point up so that the draglink doesn't slope up... Also with the way my frame is set up, with the snout under the rail, it'd be almost completely hidden behind the Split wishbones... I also didn't want to run the sprint car steering because it's expensive, I don't have it, the ratios can be an issue, and I really am not crazy about having that long draglink running back to the cowl... Some days it looks ok to me... Somedays I don't like the look... So it should be pretty easy to flip the box sideways and fab up a pice of angle to mount to the stock steering box mounting holes right?... Not so much actually.... Since I'm using the Spencer roadster as inspiration, and have pinched the frame rails... There isn't a whole lot of room to mess with. It's not as tight as say a 60 t-bird, but it's tight... Also the frame rails slope in pretty rapidly towards to the front, so the box has to be as far back as possible... Long story short... In order to keep the column centered between the 39 pedals and the mount on the 36 dash, the steering box would have to be cut in to the lower lip of the rail... So my choices are... Option A----Notch the lower lip of the rail a bit (Maybe .5") and mount the box with the snout under the rail and fab up the appropriate mounts. The problem with this one is I'm not sure what notching the rail would do to the strength... Option B----The other option I have is to trim all the stock 40 Ford mounts off the box, buy a flange from Tardel (0r have one made for me) and mount the box through the rail similar to the stock 32 mount... Only probably a bit lower in the rail. The problem with this is the steering arm will sit up pretty high and won't be as hidden as if the box were mounted under the rail.... Suggestions... Here's some really crappy pics of what I'm talking about... My camera is dead right now...
option C: mount the box the way it was in a `40 Ford and cross steer it the world famous Rocky `33 has that setup
can you remove only one stock mounting hole and add another one somewhere else on the box and then fit it underneath? heres where I put mine if it helps at all?(probably not?)
Cross steer sounds like a good idea but with the spring mounted behind I'm guessing there will be all kinds of issues with interference. Also trying to run the column down the side of the engine with pinched rails would be impossible. I'm pretty familiar with what you are doing since I had the same box on my modified. If it was my car and I had that box? I would probably notch the frame rail if I had to... but look at the geometry again. It would not be a bad thing to have the draglink sloping uphill a bit. Still working on steering with my pinched rails. Will likely using an F1 box.
hard to say without a mock up. Pete & Jake's now make extra long steering arms for this , i believe they call them "suicide steering arms"
Not an option unfortunately... I actually thought that might work before I started on the frame... With the rails pinched, there's just not enough room in the right places for that to work... Even with the bottom-inside mount cut off, the rail would likely have to be notched a bit... But, I'm starting to get the feeling I need to just pick a solution and start cutting to see if it'll work... I just can't seem to visualize it any better than I already have...
I've been watching those posts closely on here... I wouldn't have a problem running the arm down on another build... I'm having a hard time giving up on this setup... It feels like there's a simple solution just beyond my grasp... Frustrating really... But I need to get a non-column shift housing for this box anyway so maybe it would be easier just to try to scrounge up a complete F-1 box and column...
I have the same box setup on my '34 pickup like that. I'll see if I can dig up some pics when I get home today. Honestly, it's not a great solution and the way mine is done, the geometry is slightly less than desireable. It works, I've put about 12k miles on it, but I've been thinking of re-doing it with an f1 box...
I cut the bottom, outward mount off the box last night and looked at it again... Still lots of issues but I think I can get it on there... How thick is the casting on these boxes? Do I have enough meat to grind a bit for clearance? Also, If I moved the box in .5" or so, would that make everything wonky behind the wheel? Do you think I'd even notice it?
Would a Mustang box help with clearance? I have one somewhere. I could photo for you. I also have a junk 40 box housing you could cut up if wanted.
I don't understand why you would cut a mount off? Or maybe I don't fully get what you've decided to do? Here is my box mounted. Draglink is slightly uphill in relation to the split wishbone - which was close to level as I remember it. Draw a line off of the back of the draglink and it would intersect the tie rod pivot or be really close. Screw trying to keep the wishbone and draglink parallel. Unless they are the same length and in the same location fore and aft, it is not the best geometry, period. With a pinched Deuce frame you might have to adjust here and there, but I wouldn't think you would need to grind or cut anything off? Looking from here I think you're way overthinking it. And that's saying something coming from me. get the box on the frame - clamped or whatever. Shoot the column through your pedals and take steering wheel clearance (against the door) into account, and just make a mount from the holes to the frame. Big gussets, weld it in, done. I'll be looking for pics tomorrow.
I don't think the mustang box wouls help much with clearance... But if you don't need the 40 box that could help... You have a PM Thanks!
OK, I see where I wasn't clear... I modified your pic to show it better. (Thanks for the pic BTW. That's kind of how I pictured my mount. I needed the visual.) The red circle is the mount I had to cut off because it interfered with the bottom lip on the frame rail... The blue circle is the mount that is untouched but in order for the column to be ever remotely close to centered between the brake and clutch pedals, this mount actually sits inside the frame chanel. It's actually still about .5" off center between the pedals to the inside of the car. But I don't think that would be much of an issue... I might have to move the dash around a bit to get the gauges in the right place... With Guys like Zach, Bass and Iona etc on here... I find myself overthinking everything... I eventually come to terms with my Hack-ness and just weld shit up... But Sometimes it takes longer than other times...
Compairison of Mustang,Maverick box and 40 box. It looks like it would gain you some room and not have any ears cut off. I got this last year at New Braunfels Swap for $20
I have got to go to the NB swap... I've never made it out there. Something always comes up... The Mustang box itself looks like it would provide a bit more room but I think all the bracketry on it might be in the way. Also it's a bit too new for the theme of this particular car... Thanks a bunch for showing the pic though... Ok... So I have the mount all templetted out now... Do you think 3/16" plate is thick enough with some judicously designed gussets... Kind of like what Kevin did? Or do I need to get some 1/4? In addition to the mount to the frame, I plan on fabbing something that mounts the snout to the bottom of the rail too...
HAH!! That was me asking about that mount I bet... I missed that post. Thanks for the refresher! I was actually just thinking about welding something to the box... Or really having someone weld something to the box. But I guess it's kind of a sketchy deal welding to the cast boxes so maybe something like that would be better... In any case, that part can wait untill I get the rest of the box mounted... I guess 1/4" would be better... But I think 3/16 would work with the snout mount and some gussets like you have.
Ok, so here's what I came up with so far... It's just tacked in right now and needs to be moved around a little bit, but you get the idea. the bracket extends all the way into the frame rail, will be completely welded when position correctly and will be 'captured' by the boxing plates... It will also have some gussets for strength/rigidity and the formentioned snout mount... ...That is... Unless I decide to shit-can the whole thing...
My Buddy Briz has the old Hergert Bros track roadster built in 53 in Portland Or. It has 40 ford steering mounted in it's original cross steer configuration. Works great, no clearance issues. PM me if you need his number, Gary.....
I'd love to see pics of the car if you have any... But in order to make cross steering work on my frame, the box would have to be mounted under the left water pump of the flathead and the front crossmember would have to be notched.... And even after all that, the snout would hang down so far that stinkbugs and highway pavers would be cursing my name for generations... Not to mention all the u-joint monkey motion going on to make it work... Like I said though, if it could be done, it'd definately be my first choice. And again, what I'm doing is in no way set in stone so keep the suggestions coming...
The Pinched deuce frame and tight frame to motor/exhaust clearance seems to be an on-going issue with alot of builds. It seems hard to get your steering wheel on the right angle/height/ and centered with your seat when you're going with the straight column to box connections. I'm doing a 29 on a pinched deuce frame now and have my F-1 box mocked up on top of the frame rail, but inside the cowl. I have the cowl panel off the body and plan to make an inverted cowl blister type deal to finish off the panel and make it all tight against the elements. The amount of bracketry and nonsense to mount it is an ugly headache though!! hahah I know that doesn't help you...but i definately feel your pain! Couldn't you notch the framerail and then box it back in, like a c-notch if you still wanted to notch the frame? Regardless, I do like the idea you have in your latest pic...can't see why that idea won't work. I looked at a friends 34 last week...he mounted the box on its side but cut the steering shaft off and mounted the box parallel to the framerail, rather than on an angle like in your pic. Then he used to u-joints outside the firewall to make the connection....like you said though, the u-joint monkey motion has to happen. Keep us posted. -Steve
The Dick Smith roadster in the Ford museum has a 331 hemi and a 40 Ford steering box. The box is cross steer mounted. The box is way aft and the steering link goes forward at a pretty good angle. He had no problems with driving it as his daily for 30+? years. Just a thought
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