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Projects 1936 Studebaker

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by bartikus, Feb 7, 2017.

  1. bartikus
    Joined: Apr 24, 2008
    Posts: 236

    bartikus
    Member

    tapatalk_1486483935420.jpeg tapatalk_1486483945569.jpeg

    I'm torn on what I should do with my 36 Studebaker. I've owned the car now for almost 8 years. I've always had the thought that I would keep it stock, maybe slightly modified. I just haven't had the money to buy parts to fix it. I want to keep the outside looking very traditional or even origional. But if I do a complete factory resto it will take decades for me to get the car done. I've been thinking about converting the front end to a mustang 2. My buddy has one he cut out our a car that he said I could have. My factory front end has a lot of problems. I also have access to a Ford 8" rear end. I was thinking of swapping in a ford 289 I have with a t5 behind it. Like I said I've always wanted to keep the car stock but I want the car on the road and this drive train will speed the process up. I'm really looking for opions about what direction to take. This car was my grandfather's and he passed away in 2011. I would like to be able to take my mom and her siblings for a drive in the car before they get too old. I believe if I do the swap I could have a running/driving car in about a year.

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  2. scotts52
    Joined: Apr 7, 2008
    Posts: 2,256

    scotts52
    Member

    Could you find another frame to do the modifications to and keep this frame for another time when you could possibly build it stock?
     
  3. Bart...a 36 Stude is NOT on the list of classics. Even a nice, stock 36 stude won't finance your kid's way through college. I'd built it the way I want it.
    The first thing I'd do is clean it up....get all the interior out of the car because it will draw moisture and rust the car. Clean between fenders and body etc etc...anywhere dirt can accumulate and draw moisture.
    I personally don't care for using the original mustang crossmember because the metal is pretty thin and many aftermarket companies make sturdy, affordable crossmembers. That said, there were a lot of hotrods built with original crossmembers. Haven't heard of failures.
    The 5.0 ford/5 speed would make a great motor/trans for your stude. I'd keep on the lookout for a 259 or 289 stude motor whenever you could afford it in the future. It may even be possible to adapt the 5 speed to the stude bellhousing, I dunno.
     
  4. bartikus
    Joined: Apr 24, 2008
    Posts: 236

    bartikus
    Member

    The interior is out of the car. That's the first thing I did when I got it home. I do know that the car really doesn't have any value. It is more that it was my grandfather's car he drove through WWII. So I think I'm going to go with the mustang 2 and the Ford 8".

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  5. brigrat
    Joined: Nov 9, 2007
    Posts: 5,360

    brigrat
    Member
    from Wa.St.

    Mll, 8"-9" Ford rear, Baby Hemi or BLM...........................
     
  6. bartikus
    Joined: Apr 24, 2008
    Posts: 236

    bartikus
    Member

    If I build it with a mustang 2 that's the way I'm leaving it.

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  7. Danny G
    Joined: Aug 1, 2006
    Posts: 399

    Danny G
    Member

    You need to take some measurements to see where the engine will locate because my 41 has ax member and all that and firewall mods had to be taker care of. There are very few parts for these cars
     
  8. bartikus
    Joined: Apr 24, 2008
    Posts: 236

    bartikus
    Member

    I will definitely be taking some measurements before I start changing things. I know how few parts are available for these cars and unfortunately my factory gauge cluster is all smashed up.

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  9. 38caddy
    Joined: Mar 15, 2006
    Posts: 62

    38caddy
    Member
    from RI

    Wow, I haven't ever read a story that's EXACTLY like mine, with the exception of the dates. I got my car (a '38 Cadillac) in 2005. It was my grandparents' car which they drove cross-country and back at least 3 times. They drove it into the garage in 1958 and it never left again. My car looks exactly like yours except that I have more paint on the body and less surface rust. I've also been delayed by money and time (in my case, caused by kids). From the looks of it, you're also limited for space too. I am also torn between keeping it a bone stock restoration or keeping it stock with the exception of the running gear.

    I have decided that I will fix up the steering, brakes and suspension and then decide on a power plant at that point. Personally, I would be inclined to pull the engine/transmission and stick it in a nice dry storage location and forget about it for now. You can put some jack stands under the frame rails and strip off the front end. Clean up the front frame with a grinder or a media blaster and prime/paint it with a brush. The beauty of this is that you will need to do it no matter what direction you decide. If you think you want to keep it mostly stock, you can clean, restore and rebuild the front end parts and re-install them back on the car. Throw on some tubes/tires and the front end is done. Repeat this for the back-end and you've got a rolling chassis.

    If you toss the idea of high-buck, factory-original restoration out the window, a wire wheel, rattle-can and brush-on paint, a decent buff/polish, and new rubber and wires are all that is required for most repairs. The big trick is to also throw out the idea that you see in shows and some of the builds on here where people seem to have meticulous 5-bay commercial garages with every tool imaginable at their disposal for months at a time and an endless supply of time/money to work on the car (damned retired people that I'm jealous of!). You don't need to pull the body off the frame (for now). You don't need to send the engine off for a $10k machining/rebuild while sending the body off for a $10k paint job while you spend another $10k cleaning up the frame and replacing the rolling gear. You just need to do a little job here and a little job there. And the first job is pulling the engine/transmission from the frame.
     
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  10. Looking at the 2 photos of your project I think your going at it the Wrong direction. That is a rather Large project. I have no idea what your skills are but ask yourself this. If I can just get steering, brakes and a motor in this thing as is will my Mom and her siblings want to ride in it as it is then. If you think $$$ past running and moving is no issue then I recommend you do what ever you can without $$$ and get it to that stopping point first. As for M2 I think that's a mouse trap. There is nothing wrong with a Beam Axle and a brake up grade. You can in fact use some aftermarket front axles with way less impact than the M2 will make. Under the hood motor selection really don't matter, I say if you have it use it. 8" Ford rear axle is just fine. So can you Body work, paint, upholster, install new glass, wire, plumb and build a fresh Gas tank all by yourself at home? Keep the picture Real so you don't take a nice project and turn it into something You can't get done and have damaged past anyone else wanting to take over.
    The Wizzard
     
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  11. bartikus
    Joined: Apr 24, 2008
    Posts: 236

    bartikus
    Member

    Yeah I'm not worried about the body work and interior. I can do most of that at home. I'm no professional with body work but I'm not wanting a show stopping car. I want something that looks decent and I can drive. I have thought about leaving the front and rear axles. But the front axle has issues. I need new leaf springs, one of the shocks are busted, and of course the brakes are gone. The car hasn't been driven since the early 50's. But that being said I'm open to different front ends on the car. It doesn't have to be a mustang 2. I just have access to one for free. But this doesn't mean it is the best decision for the car. That's why I was asking for opinions.

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  12. NashRodMan
    Joined: Jul 8, 2004
    Posts: 1,652

    NashRodMan
    Member

    Do whatever you have to do to get it on the road the quickest way possible. Do not worry about keeping it original. Then take your mom and siblings for a bunch of rides in a comfortable, nice driving car.
     
  13. bartikus
    Joined: Apr 24, 2008
    Posts: 236

    bartikus
    Member

    Yeah that kinda been my thought on the car. The quicker I get it on the road the better off it will be. Funny thing about the car. When my grandparents were in socal during WWII they washed the car and the paint came off. They had to have the car repainted before they left to go north to Washington where my grandfather was being stationed.

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  14. williebill
    Joined: Mar 1, 2004
    Posts: 2,706

    williebill
    Member

    Many people use stuff that they can get for free, and it ends up costing much more, or else kills the project. Forget the free shit, especially the M2. Springs, shocks, and brakes will be much less BS that switching out for a M2.
     
  15. bartikus
    Joined: Apr 24, 2008
    Posts: 236

    bartikus
    Member

    That's my hesitation to just jump on the mustang 2 band wagon. I've been going back and forth for the last couple of years trying to decide what to do.

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  16. scotts52
    Joined: Apr 7, 2008
    Posts: 2,256

    scotts52
    Member

    Have you priced out things from www.kanter.com to see how much it'd cost to rebuild your front end?
     
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  17. brigrat
    Joined: Nov 9, 2007
    Posts: 5,360

    brigrat
    Member
    from Wa.St.

    After you receive and install your FREE Mll you will have to go threw it assuming it is used. Those parts can add up fast. Rebuilding your stock front end can add up fast. Throw that old shit away or sell to a Studebaker purist. If you plan on anything but stock motor and trans I would go with a complete Mll from Fatman Fabrications. They list kits for the '36 Studebaker. You kill so many birds with one purchase and install, better brakes, power or non power rack, can tailor the suspension for ride quality, easy to buy parts at most Auto stores, etc. That's a big heavy 4 door, adding a modern motor means more HP and more stopping power. In the old days I would have found a '64-'67 Chevelle, Buick, later '60s -'70s Camaro or Chevelle front suspension and grafted it on but they are hard to find nowadays......................................... JM2cents.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
  18. bartikus
    Joined: Apr 24, 2008
    Posts: 236

    bartikus
    Member

    I've looked into after market mustang 2 set ups and they are decently priced. That's another option I am thinking about. I feel that if the car was in better shape over all I would already have it on the road. This is all really good info and will help me make my decision on what route to go.

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  19. I remember very clearly that Corvair was the New thing in the 60's. It worked on everything!!!! Then along came the Pinto that evolved into the M 2 we know now. It fits Everything, just ask Fatman. I've installed several over the years. I have yet to drive any of the 3 in anything that impresses me. No one product can be the answer for everything reguardless how you install it.
    The Wizzard
     
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  20. koolkemp
    Joined: May 7, 2004
    Posts: 6,006

    koolkemp
    Member

    Get the Mustang front even if you aren't sure, it's free. You might want to use it later or it could be great to trade or sell for other parts. I've gotten a couple cheap over the years and always got 2-300 for them. . Lots of inexpensive metal cleaning can be done on the body and frame while you come up with a plan and source parts for the build. I think this could be a real fun project, plus it has sentimental value!


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  21. bchctybob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2011
    Posts: 2,897

    bchctybob
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Do you have the window glass, side trim, bumpers and the grill? If not, you are really a long way from a decent car to start with. Which do you find you have more of; Time or Money? Since there is a kid in your avatar I'm assuming both are limited. I'm going to offer a different approach.
    If it was mine in your circumstances, I would start stripping, derusting, repairing and primering the body a panel at a time. You will quickly find out how much love you really have for the project. The sentimental aspect is admirable but that is a big project. You can make meaningful progress for little investment while you study suspension and brake options and put aside some money. The family will be more enthusiastic as it starts to look better (and less hopeless, in their eyes) If it turns out to be too much for you, the work you've done will either make it more presentable for sale or nicer to look at back in storage.
    Once it is primered, start fitting your Ford motor in there. You may find oil pan to axle interference that will help you make a decision about a front suspension change. If you have been putting aside some cash religiously you should be able to buy a decent kit. It's a full fendered car so you can use the econo - kits, it doesn't need tubular a-arms or chrome coil-overs. That's my take on it. It's a cool and unusual car and would make a great family cruiser.
    BTW; years ago I was looking for a project. I saw a '36 Stude sitting beside a garage with a For Sale sign in it. I went up to look at it, it was in about the same condition as yours, asking price? $4500. He wouldn't budge on the price. I liked the overall look of the car and especially the grill/hood. If it had been a 2 dr sedan I'd be loading pictures to show you right now......
     
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  22. brigrat
    Joined: Nov 9, 2007
    Posts: 5,360

    brigrat
    Member
    from Wa.St.

    Pist-n-Broke, Is rite about the Corvair, Pinto, and M2, but they worked well in what they were factory installed in. You start adding the weight of your Stud, a modern motor & trans none of them will work well or safely in your rig. I would not put an old stock M2 and cradle in your build. I have done several front clips over the last 40 years and like PnB I wasn't really impressed with the ride & feel. The only front clips I felt were worth a shit, in your size range vehicle, were the GM '64-'67 with upgraded springs when needed, disc brakes & a 1'-1 1/8" sway bar. The M2 was great for the smaller vehicle crowd. Most installed them and drove off into the Sunset WITHOUT fine tuning what they just installed and lived ignorantly with any annoyances ............................
     
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  23. bartikus
    Joined: Apr 24, 2008
    Posts: 236

    bartikus
    Member

    I don't have a front bumper and only one piece of glass is still intact. But I do have most of the rest of the car. It sat in central Utah from the early 50's until sometime in the 80's when my uncle's were going to "restore" the car. They pulled the front apart and that's how it has sat for the last 30 years or so. The thought of doing one body panel at a time is not a bad idea. My kids are getting older and I'm making more money so I have more time and funds then I did a few years ago when I brought the car home. I don't have an unlimited budget but could save up for an aftermarket mustang 2 in a few months. As soon as it starts to warm up in a couple of months I'm pulling my off topic Buick back out of the garage and it will give me a place to work on the car.

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  24. trollst
    Joined: Jan 27, 2012
    Posts: 1,970

    trollst
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    What a load......I also have installed many pinto stock crossmembers, they make fabulous front ends. In a pinto or mustang, they are welded into a unibody car and are in fact the strongest part of the car. My first one is still in my 36, twenty years later, drives like it's factory fresh. Cut all the sheet metal away from the crossmember, set your frame up for your anticipated stance, slide the crossmember into your frame, make sure the bottom of the crossmember is level front to back, measure off the floor of your shop, tack it in, check, check, check, and weld that baby in, tw DSC05381.JPG DSC05382.JPG o hour job tops. They are strong, use the same parts as crown victorias, ball joints are overbuilt for a 3000 lb car, have ten inch discs, lots for your car, upgrade kits are everywhere.
    I speak from experience, having done several of these, all drive fantastic, use the strut rods, make the brackets yourself, get on with the build, it's your car, you decide, but get on with it.
     
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  25. brigrat
    Joined: Nov 9, 2007
    Posts: 5,360

    brigrat
    Member
    from Wa.St.

    "What a load" if that was directed at my post, you made my point, Pinto, M2 are great for the smaller lighter build vehicles like yours, done many that way. IMO not suitable for OP's build.
    Love your truck, very fortunate to have owned it for so long, wish I had kept a few from way back when.
     
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  26. I must be in deep shit then with my Must II installed in my 38 Chevy with an all iron 454 big block if they are only good for light cars with small engines. Only been on the road for 20 years that way and never any problems. Used stock Ford control arms upper and lower with strut rods. Aftermarket crossmember and spring hats. Bigger brakes and power steering. Rides nice and stance is where I want it. A rebuild kit is cheap if you need it.

    A Must II with a factory 302 probably has more weight on the front end than I do. I used a Must II V8 donor car, and had to cut the coils to get it sitting with LCA to be parallel with the ground. Remember that the Must II had the engine basically centered over the front axle centerline. Most old car swaps the front of the engine is approx at the front axle centerline.

    Back to OP, the Must II is fine for your Stude. I would stay away from some of the newer IFS swaps, most will be too wide for your Stude. As Rocky and others suggested, no real value in keeping it stock original. Make it a nice hot rod and have fun driving it using whatever suspension you choose and a more modern drivetrain. Keep the hood closed and the fenders on. IFS is not good for fenderless.
     
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  27. bartikus
    Joined: Apr 24, 2008
    Posts: 236

    bartikus
    Member

    Thanks for the input. I'm going to get started on the Studebaker in a couple of months. I think I'm grabbing the mustang 2 from my buddy. Worst case if I don't use it I will sell it. I'm also going to look into an aftermarket cross member. I'll cross that bridge when the time comes. Yeah if this was a fenderless build I would not be running the mustang 2. I know on 36 Studebaker had an independent front available on their cars. But mine was the less expensive solid front axle car. I'm really looking forward to getting started on the Studebaker. It will be great to have the car back on the road.

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  28. brigrat
    Joined: Nov 9, 2007
    Posts: 5,360

    brigrat
    Member
    from Wa.St.

    Good choice on an after market cross member, thicker, stronger, your track width and how far apart your frame rails are at front center line will dictate which one............................................
     
  29. This has always been one of my big issues with M2 kits. "Quote, your track width and how far apart your frame rails are at front center line will dictate which one". You move the lower A Frame's further apart with a Kit then extend the Rack with longer tie rod ends. That works real well. Ever notice the relationship of Rack width and A Frame pivot bolts in a Factory car?
    Lots of Gum Shoes out there that don't know a good driving car from a Car that just goes strait forward.
    The Wizzard
     
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  30. brigrat
    Joined: Nov 9, 2007
    Posts: 5,360

    brigrat
    Member
    from Wa.St.

    True story, At the time we were building 2 Outlaw body's '40 Willys coup's. Ordered 2 complete kit's from Heits. They ask all kids of questions, frame rail width, ride height, wheel tire offset, wheel tire height, etc, etc. After installation of one of them the track width was to wide, couldn't turn tires without hitting inside fender lip. Called Heits and the guy on the other end started laughing. I said whats so funny we just waisted 6 g's with you? He said we just sent 10 units to Florida! Both of ours were 3" to wide, had to take 3" out of the cross member and 3" out of the middle of the rack. Customer/friend is very happy with the ride. Probably installed 10-12 Fatmans, without a problem......................................
     

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