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1930s Era Champ Car - new project

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER, Nov 20, 2007.

  1. graveyardsledder
    Joined: Oct 30, 2006
    Posts: 294

    graveyardsledder
    Member

    I love everything about this but I'm just a little bit partial to not having to share a car with any one. I.e. Single seaters!


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
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  2. Nice work! I love this project

    Sent using smoke signals
     
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  3. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 2,846

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    My build from the early 90's press 013.jpg
     
  4. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,750

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    The outside edge gets final trimming after all the bodywork is done and a mounting flange is installed. I cut it 1/4" oversize for now. Then I will "engine turn" the panel before I install the gages and switches. Oh, I'll use an idiot light as well as the oil pressure gage. It has saved at least one engine on one of my drag cars when my driver saw it flash on and shut 'er down immediately. (failed pickup tube)
     
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  5. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,750

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Beautiful work dre.
    May I ask you a couple of questions about your build:
    What wire wheels are you using? I want to use wire wheels but I am finding out wire wheels and period tires will probably be the costliest part of the project. I have hubs and brakes that are 5 x 5.5 (Ford truck) and I want to retain front brakes - again, to be street legal.

    and

    How did you enclose the front of the foot box? Is it completely sealed off from the oil pan?

    P.S. I'll be in SoCal in a few weeks. Orange County. Are you anywhere close by?
     
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  6. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 2,846

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    owner brought the W&T over to the shop, I may be wrong but "Buffalo" come to mind
    made a bucket and countured to the back of the motor with a front firewall overlap
    and yes, I will even let you pay for lunch 38.jpg 38a.jpg
     
  7. grdra1
    Joined: May 20, 2013
    Posts: 241

    grdra1
    Member

    Awesome, that's all I can say, isn't making stuff so much fun and rewarding. Glen
     
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  8. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,750

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

  9. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,750

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    inst panl 04.jpg I "blingged up" the instrument panel with some engine turning, after watching a few youtube videos on the subject. I went with the lo-tech approach using a stiff wire brush in my drill press. One thing I think helps the look is to space each row with a 60 degree offset, instead of aligning each swirl over one in the previous row.
     
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  10. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 23,536

    loudbang
    Member

    Came out GREAT. Always wondered why some looked so much better than others. Angling them really WORKS.
     
  11. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,750

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I did a little more clean up on my intake manifold, first smoothing it with abrasive tootsie rolls in a die grinder then smoothing it out a little with some abrasive compound. I ground down the welds on the flange but lest some get concerned that it will weaken it no worries - I welded them on the inside of the runners too.

    Truth be told I have a bunch of parts that need attaching to the chassis and lots of finish welding to do, but I am putting it off until I can re-wire my garage for more ampacity. My new (to me) Miller TIG machine has been tripping the breaker when I try to weld aluminum on higher amp settings. I've put up with it for long enough. sr_048_3.jpg sr_048_4.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
  12. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,750

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I got the cam data from Crane:
    Adv Dur: 274 I / 284 X
    Dur @ .050: 231 I / 241 X
    Gross lift: .483" I / .486" X
    LSA: 110 w/ 3 deg advance built in
    Lash: .028" I / .032" X

    I'm still looking to trade for a hydraulic cam for a 300 six. I need hydraulic because I can't use adjustable rocker arms.
     
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  13. woodbutcher
    Joined: Apr 25, 2012
    Posts: 3,119

    woodbutcher
    Member

    :D Hi FTF.Coming along quite nicely.Please keep the updates coming as you are able.
    Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
    Leo
     
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  14. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,750

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Thanks Leo.
    I have been meaning to give everyone an update on what's been happening on both the champ car and the Attic Anglia project. I am excited and anxious to begin the next phase of work on these two projects and I have my plans laid out for the whole summer. Of course by now you may have realized I am not a straight-line guy when it comes to doing projects, but more often than not I take a circuitous route to getting stuff done. I get interrupted by other stuff a lot.
    Like drag racing
    And bought another house down south
    And as alluded to above I just chopped a hole in my house exterior wall to run 100 amps out to my garage.
    Anyhoo, here's my plans for this summers work - building ENGINES!
    I am readying an engine test stand (there's that circuitous problem again) to build a 303 ci Anglia engine for my son's Anglia. His current engine gets yanked and it will reside in my Attic Anglia. Its a 240 ci version of the big Ford six - plenty of beef for the AA car. Before that Anglia deal the champ car engine is on the stand and it currently has a stock head on it; it will get converted to a crossflow head - additional oil passages and other stuff are required. I have all the major parts for both these builds. I'll probably do a few side jobs on the champ car - make some more pieces like an external hand pump. I recently saw repops being offered for $300. That's out of my price comfort zone and it would be fun to hack one out of billet.
    I just put wheels and a tow bar on the test stand so I can tow it from my storage building to my home shop. Next I'll rewire it.
    So all-in-all lots going on and lots of plans for the coming months.
     
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  15. woodbutcher
    Joined: Apr 25, 2012
    Posts: 3,119

    woodbutcher
    Member

    :D Hi FTF.Sounds like a very busy summer.Looking Forward to your updates.
    Good Luck.Have Fun.Be Safe.
    Leo
     
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  16. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,750

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Today I rolled the engine test stand out of storage to continue work on the engine. I built the short block back when I started this car project. I guess you could say it will be a "mule motor" as it is going to be a rather mild build-up. But I can always screw in more horsepower later. It will have the following upgrades:
    - crossflow cylinder head w/ 69 cc chambers
    - hypereutectic .020" over pistons
    - big sump oil pan with enhanced oiling system
    - block modifications to route pressurized oil to the shaft-mounted rocker arms
    - straight-cut (whiney) cam gears with variable cam timing
    - twin SU carbs
    - stainless exhaust system
    The short block still looks real good considering its been sitting in a corner for ten years. At some point the radiator on the stand took a hit and now must be repaired or replaced. It has a gaping gash in the tank.

    test stand 01.jpg
     
  17. 64 DODGE 440
    Joined: Sep 2, 2006
    Posts: 4,009

    64 DODGE 440
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from so cal

    Like the color on the Anglia.
     
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  18. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,750

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Thanks Tom
    Grabber Blue
     
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  19. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,750

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I have begun to prepare the cast iron crossflow cylinder head. Started out by grinding and filing all the sharp edges and corners left by the machining processes. It saves lots of cuts and skinned knuckles down the road. Lots of racers port and polish the insides of their heads but I'm going to port-n-polish the outside. This is going to be a piece of art as much as a working race car and I want it to look as good as can be wherever it ends up in the future. I probably should start a separate thread on this unique piece but it may be too O/T in-and-of-itself. I didn't do any pics of the short block but I'll try to document with head pics on this thread. Here's a little taste of the outside prep.

    XFLO 01.jpg

    I think I'll either powder coat it clear or paint it.
     
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  20. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,750

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I got the rest of the head cleaned up and ready for paint. Next comes assembly of the valves etc. XFLO 02.jpg XFLO 03.jpg
     
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  21. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,750

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I am using a set of valves from a different head. The intakes are nice - one piece swirl polished stainless undercut. I started off by grinding a 30 degree back cut on the intakes to enhance flow. Then ground my faces. I like to do a half-degree interference angle on the faces and then lap them into the head so I can see the contact pattern. The exhausts are nuttin' special - aluminized heads so I didn't polish them up - just left the Al coating intact.

    XFLO 06.jpg XFLO 08.jpg
     
  22. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,750

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Woo Hoo!!! I now have 100 amp service in my garage. Now I can start with the backload of parts that are fabbed and need to be "stuck" on the car.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2018
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  23. Offset
    Joined: Nov 9, 2010
    Posts: 1,595

    Offset
    Member
    from Canada

    You guys with talent tick me off. LOL

    What a great project, can't wait to see the finished racer(s).

    Well done.
     
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  24. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,750

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Work continues on the crossflow cylinder head build up.
    ALL VALVE SPRING LOADS CHECKED ON THE HIGH SIDE OF THE SPEC - GOOD NEWS
    XFLO 09.jpg

    INSTALLED HEIGHT SHOWED SPRING SHIMS ARE NEEDED.
    XFLO 10.jpg
    HARDENED STEEL SPRING CUPS AND HI-PO SHIMS ARE USED.
    XFLO 11.jpg

    GUIDES ARE CROSSHATCH HONED FOR ADEQUATE CLEARANCE AND OIL RETENTION.
    XFLO 13.jpg
    THE INNER DIA. OF THE CUPS WAS TOO SMALL, REQUIRING GRINDING TO ENLARGE. I MADE UP A PLUG GAGE TO FACILITATE THE PROCESS.
    XFLO 14.jpg
    THE CUP SEATS REQUIRED A LITTLE CLEARANCING TO THE CORE PLUGS.
    XFLO 15.jpg
    AFTER GRINDING, THE VALVES ARE LAPPED IN PLACE.
    XFLO 16.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
  25. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,750

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Ready to bolt on with a really beefy rocker arm shaft.

    [​IMG]

    I made a minor change to the rocker arm oiling circuit to improve lubrication. Otherwise stock.

    [​IMG]

    OK, I DID install a bigger exhaust valve. I just can't leave well enough alone.

    [​IMG]
     
  26. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,750

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Last week I visited the American Museum of Speed in NE. Great experience and a chance to examine many historic cars up close. I also visited fellow HAMBer - screen name "rarebike" - who is building a similar car with a '41 Lincoln V-12 with many rare speed parts.
    I arrived home inspired to make another little accessory - an external fuel pressure pump. I made a wood pattern and used a chunk of a failed aluminum race car driveshaft (that is a story unto itself) for the body.

    pump 01.jpg pump 02.jpg pump 03.jpg

    It still needs metal finishing.
     
  27. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,750

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    On to the cam installation.

    I degreed the cam in. I will be starting with the stock cam. It has 110 LSA. I installed it at 112 degrees. I will be using a set of prototype steel adjustable cam drive gears. They have straight-cut teeth so they will be very strong. But they will be noisy. And that's what I want - a whine coming from the engine to evoke the sound of the early supercharged race engines. They also have the advantage of eliminating fore-aft cam walk as with helical gears.

    The good news about this gear set is that it is infinitely adjustable.
    The bad news about this gear set is that it is infinitely adjustable.

    When I received it there were no timing marks on the gears. I thought it was an oversight. So I thought - no problem, I'll just overlay a stock gear, align the keyways, and mark where the timing mark should be.

    After locating true TDC I had a heck of a time trying to get the timing to come in correctly by changing the various holes in the cam hub. It was way off in one direction, then would be way off in the other direction.
    Until I had that "AHAA!" moment and realized why there were no timing marks. The cam gear can be clocked to any tooth that will bring the timing in to where you want it. So I set the cam on the .050" lift point and left it there. I removed the outer ring of the cam gear (without disturbing the dial indicator) and clocked it around until I found a tooth that exactly aligned with the tooth in the crank gear, which I had rotated into the proper degree setting on the degree wheel. Since the gears are straight cut it just slipped back on the cam hub without moving either the cam or crank. Then I double checked using the exhaust lobe figures.
    Clever design

    XFLO CAM 01.jpg XFLO CAM 02.jpg
     
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  28. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,750

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Its probably a good time to point out a couple helpful tools I made to make this job easier - lifter movement rod and an adjustable TDC stop. The rod is just a piece of 3/8 pushrod that has a flat plug on top to give the dial indicator a nice surface to contact. You could make a longer one for checking events with the head on. A regular 5/16" pushrod tapped for a flat head screw could work in a pinch. The blue pipe plug has a precise hole in the center to hold the rod steady in the center of the block clearance hole.
    The adjustable TDC stop is self explanatory, except be sure to locate it inside of the ring lands so there is no risk of damaging the ring lands if you rotate it with too much enthusiasm. Find a flat surface - not on the side of a dome or dish.

    Astute Ford six aficionados have by now noticed the 1/4" stainless steel tubing running down from the deck surface through the lifter gallery and into the oil passage below. That is where Ford engineers tapped into to get oil to the head. Since the valves are actuated by shaft mounted rocker arms (a blessing) they needed a way to oil both the rocker arms AND the shaft. Two of these oil supply tubes are used. One would have been sufficient but echoes of the old Y-block oiling issues with plugged oil passages dictated that redundancy be built into the system. Pressure-fed rockers give me the warm fuzzies.

    [On my XFLO (avatar) drag car I have severely restricted these passages to keep more oil in the bottom end.]

    XFLO CAM 03.jpg XFLO CAM 04.jpg
     
  29. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,750

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    A couple more details for the engine test stand.

    The water pump needed an idler for the belt. I built this so I can eliminate the alternator / charging system. The dyno stand is self powered. If you would like to build a similar idler try using a '73 Ford idler assembly part # D3AH-8S617-BA. It will allow you to adjust the belt tension.

    test stand 02.jpg test stand 03.jpg test stand 04.jpg

    Another item that was needed was a male outlet sleeve off the end of the header. That will mate up to the tail pipe or in this case a shop exhaust system.

    test stand 06.jpg test stand 05.jpg
     
  30. CoolHand
    Joined: Aug 31, 2007
    Posts: 1,917

    CoolHand
    Alliance Vendor

    This project just keeps getting better.

    Glad to see a reply, was worried that it had stalled out (like all of MY projects).

    Go man, go! :D
     
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