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1928 chevy 4cyl motor

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by RedRodder, Apr 7, 2010.

  1. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 5,852

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    Yes the weather is bad. My friend's lady has been missing for a week. They are searching a 500 square mile area when weather permits. It doesn't look good. A Care flight plane crashed 4 miles from here two nights ago killing 5. My wife heard it making a strange noise as it went over.
    We'll get together and tell Combine stories.
     
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  2. grumpy gaby 2
    Joined: Aug 10, 2019
    Posts: 462

    grumpy gaby 2
    Member

    I sure hope they find your friends lady safe!
     
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  3. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 5,852

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    They found her yesterday, too late.
    Back to the Chevy 4 build! More pictures please.
     
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  4. grumpy gaby 2
    Joined: Aug 10, 2019
    Posts: 462

    grumpy gaby 2
    Member

    I am really sorry to hear that! My wife and I will be praying for your friend, yourself, and your wife.

    More pictures:
    My copper for the head gasket came today. Rich had said that he usually used .0431 thick half hard copper, cut out the gasket, smoked it, and burnt off the smoke from the opposite side with a broad flame. Didn't have time to work on this. Think that I better learn how to work copper before I start. I am guessing maybe put it on a piece of plywood and clamp it down in a lot of places.

    DSCN1154.JPG
     
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  5. grumpy gaby 2
    Joined: Aug 10, 2019
    Posts: 462

    grumpy gaby 2
    Member

    I did a little more picture taking. Th DSCN1155.JPG DSCN1156.JPG

    This is my new gear. I figured that this is the easyest time to add a front drive if I would ever need it. I will have to make a new timing cover anyway, so why not put a port on it. I am using a 1/2 inch socket head cap screw for a driver. This gives me a 3/8 inch hex to plug what ever into. This is still a work in progress. (oh, had to anneal the threaded end to get it to cut better. I was very carefull to keep some temper in the head. I left a little to much, had to grind off last little bit.)

    I guess that it is time to let the cat out of the bag! This is what I will be running on my side drive.

    DSCN1157.JPG DSCN1157.JPG DSCN1158.JPG DSCN1159.JPG
     
  6. Kevin Pharis
    Joined: Aug 22, 2020
    Posts: 515

    Kevin Pharis

    You've already done the hard part, paying for that sheet of copper! I’ve always waterjet or laser cut my solid gaskets, but the .04” seems to be the best for the job. I’ve had no luck with .06” or .08” gaskets when trying to lower compression. The ol acetylene soot trick works well, but takes some practice to keep the soot from getting thick. Can also use sharpie marker as this is applies much more predictably, and a MAP/propane gas plumbing torch will heat more evenly with its cooler flame. The BBQ grill works great when annealing as it holds the gasket flat, doesn’t absorb much heat, and you can quench with water right in place. That bugger will be really soft when hot, if you have to move it to quench it’ll never fit the same. Look into getting a can of aerosol Hylomar, was the only thing that worked for me…
     
  7. grumpy gaby 2
    Joined: Aug 10, 2019
    Posts: 462

    grumpy gaby 2
    Member

    Thanks Kevin! I have never done this, so need all the help that I can get. I will have to look up Hylomar.
     
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  8. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 3,080

    Beanscoot
    Member

    I have found that copper (and brass) will remain soft just fine without quenching with water.
     
  9. Kevin Pharis
    Joined: Aug 22, 2020
    Posts: 515

    Kevin Pharis

    The Hylomar goes on like spraying honey, but never fully dries and was the only thing I could find that would hold back the water. Of course, I was running a T with an aluminum flathead, the chebby may seal better as the cast iron O/H valve head is likely to be much less flexible under the head bolts.


    Yur absolutely right, quenching in still air is softening the material, but you may find that the faster cooling rate of a water quench gets the material closer to a fully annealed state. The small difference in hardness may or may not matter depending upon the application
     
  10. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 5,852

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    I don't know what I'm looking at with the side drive. I recognize the distributer but the rest?
     
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  11. grumpy gaby 2
    Joined: Aug 10, 2019
    Posts: 462

    grumpy gaby 2
    Member

    It is a distributer and water pump. I tried to find a through shaft water pump to add a third item, but came up blank. I'll put some earlier pics. I did not get a picture of my GG2 solid connector. The last picture is how the original was configured.
    DSCN1114.JPG DSCN1115.JPG DSCN1116.JPG DSCN1117.JPG DSCN1120.JPG
     
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  12. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 5,852

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    OK, I was wondering if the water pump was a blower. Good machine work. There is a good lathe and a mill buried in my shop under the peg board project along with my roadster build.
     
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  13. grumpy gaby 2
    Joined: Aug 10, 2019
    Posts: 462

    grumpy gaby 2
    Member

    Rich did not like the oil pump running off of the cam, so moved it. After seeing the cam in person, I did not want anything running off of it. I would rather add a little spring pressure back on the valves. Right now they are less than stock on the seat.

    Here is another water pump that has the through shaft, but does not have any bearings of any type. Also the impeller is shot. If it had been usable, I had an oil pump that I could use say for a dry sump!?!..... I am so over my head now that I better try to get what I've got done correctly. With the cost of that copper sheet, I am afraid that I will ruin it. I do not know of anyone close that has a laser or water jet. Also I have never poured aluminum and that is what I want to make the timing cover out of. Got some really steep learning curves ahead of this old "fart"!
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2023
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  14. grumpy gaby 2
    Joined: Aug 10, 2019
    Posts: 462

    grumpy gaby 2
    Member

    Forgot to add the pics.

    DSCN1160.JPG DSCN1161.JPG DSCN1162.JPG DSCN1163.JPG
     
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  15. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 5,852

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    My son has a friend who has the skill to cast the timing cover but I don't know if he has the means right now, I'll check.
     
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  16. grumpy gaby 2
    Joined: Aug 10, 2019
    Posts: 462

    grumpy gaby 2
    Member

    Thanks, Six Ball. If he would just be able to give me some pointers.

    I just found an outfit in Walla Walla that does water jet of all kinds. Will give them a call.
     
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  17. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 5,852

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    I'll call my son tomorrow. I bet you could lean what you need on YouTube.
     
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  18. grumpy gaby 2
    Joined: Aug 10, 2019
    Posts: 462

    grumpy gaby 2
    Member

    Thanks, Six Ball! I went out to the shop tonight and picked up a couple of my metal poring books. Hopefully my brain can absorb some of this. I do have a flask and a little Peto bond but need to learn how to make patterns and set up the mold.
     
  19. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 5,852

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    I called my son and his friend is out of town.
    My only experience was in college casting small silver and brass pieces of jewelry using the lost wax process. I bet if you just want one you could make your cover of wax. Or you could set up to cast as many wax molds as you wanted. Regardless there will me machine work as well. When I was teaching in Oakland there was a foundry down the street. I would take kids there with wagons and pick up wood scraps for art projects, some nice hardwood pieces. Not sure how they used the wood but there were some interesting shapes. You could probably cast a wax form in a wooden mold todo lost wax. Chevy guys are good at working with wood! :eek:
     
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  20. grumpy gaby 2
    Joined: Aug 10, 2019
    Posts: 462

    grumpy gaby 2
    Member

    GOOD ONE! Six Ball. At le....
    This is all of my post that remains! And it was all two fingered! I was having trouble getting pictures to load, so tried something and it came up not connected. Now I cannot remember what I said.

    I have been boning up on pattern making. Not getting much time in shop but got the cam gear on day before yesterday. Yesterday marked an arc for the side drive location. (Now let's see if I can load this!) DSCN1164.JPG DSCN1165.JPG
    Many years ago, I was told to use one thickness of newsprint to get clearances. I pushed the gear in very tight and used transfer punch to scribe the arc. The old Motors manual says for the 6 cylinders to be from .002 to .005. My newsprint miked at .0025, but I think that it will be multiplied by 2 because it is on both sides of the tooth. But still in spec.

    DSCN1171.JPG
     
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  21. grumpy gaby 2
    Joined: Aug 10, 2019
    Posts: 462

    grumpy gaby 2
    Member

    Today I supported the side drive along the engine. (After doing a lot of cleaning so that I could move it over. (Also found some stuff that Was done years ago) I put my other head on top just to see where the exhaust would be. (This head is out having hardened seats put in.) Both the distributor and water pump can be rotated separately from one another. DSCN1166.JPG DSCN1167.JPG DSCN1168.JPG
     
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  22. grumpy gaby 2
    Joined: Aug 10, 2019
    Posts: 462

    grumpy gaby 2
    Member

    What I had found was a box with a seal gland that I had gotten my dad to machine for me. Along as cleaning and making the sheave concentric. (If I remember right, dad said there was very little meat over the keyway. Dad has been gone for 10 to12 years, so it is fuzzy.) I just never got it welded into the stock timing cover and put on an engine. Dan, this is another way of sealing the front of the crank. DSCN1169.JPG DSCN1170.JPG
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2023
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  23. grumpy gaby 2
    Joined: Aug 10, 2019
    Posts: 462

    grumpy gaby 2
    Member

    Well, do not have any engine pictures, but have some engine machine pictures. About 15 years ago I had a model T model A guy in Walla Walla rebabitt a 28 chevy engine for me. He had an old Kwik Way valve grinding machine that he was trying to sell for a friend. He said that the flex cable to drive the chuck broke and they could not find a replacement that was wound the right direction. Anyway, he was down to 25 dollars and was not going any lower. He and I barely got it loaded into the back of my pickup.
    It has the rocker arm grinding attachment and I have ground two sets of rockers for my 28's. So, I guess that it has paid for itself. I have been going to turn it over and see about replacing the cable. I found some cheap flex extensions for sockets, so thought I'd try that.
    DSCN1174.JPG DSCN1173.JPG
    I found the broken cable and the place where it should go. The second picture is of the sliding mechanism for the attachment to the chuck head. The channel that the two balls run in is pretty rough in places.
    (This has moved down to the last pic.) This is a picture of the drive. It is driven on the right by the motor on a carriage. as the carriage is moved to the left, It engages a cone clutch. There is a short flex shaft to let the guide balls stay inline as the carriage continues to move left to grind the valve face. With the clutch engaged, the second sheave (to drive the oil pump) and the longer flex shaft are powered. The longer flex shaft is required to allow the chuck to swivel for different valve grind angles.
    The button in the far-right end of the shaft pushes against the housing to create a positive disengagement to the clutch when the carriage is moved fully to the right.
    A whole lot of monkey motion! I wonder if it wasn't designed by Rub Goldburgs cousin.
    This is as far as I can get it apart. I need cv-121 3/4 to slide out.

    What I did find out was that whoever had it apart last, decided to do away with two flex shafts and make it one continues shaft. Once that the clutch was engaged, it probably lasted about a half second with no give.
    I am now thinking of getting the end of the flex shaft cut off, put the first part back together with the pump. Moving the rest of the drive up on top of the chuck, driven with a small electric drill.
    DSCN1172.JPG DSCN1175.JPG DSCN1176.JPG DSCN1177.JPG
     
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  24. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 5,852

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    I bet if you put your mind to it you could wind another flex shaft on your lathe.
     
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  25. Stueeee
    Joined: Oct 21, 2015
    Posts: 308

    Stueeee
    Member
    from Kent, UK

    When I have made solid copper head gaskets I have clamped the copper between two sheets of 1/4" plywood. The clamping is done by countersunk machine screws going through all three layers ; the screws going through outside the edge of the gasket and in also in the bore area. The gasket shape was traced onto the top layer of plywood which also is the side with the screws and nuts protuding leaving the underside dead flat. Drill a pilot hole through the combustion chamber area for each bore. Now you can pass the scrollsaw blade through and cut the holes. The plywood pretty much eliminates the bucking and edge distortion you would be pretty much certain to get otherwise.
     
  26. grumpy gaby 2
    Joined: Aug 10, 2019
    Posts: 462

    grumpy gaby 2
    Member

    Thanks, Stueeee! It sure helps to find out what has worked for someone else. I know that I forget how much different materials other than steel react. I had not thought about using a scroll saw either. Much smaller teeth and better control. Looking at the bought head gaskets, none of them encircle the head bolts. I was wondering if it would have more even clamping force to have the gasket go around all the head bolts. Also most of the water holes are much larger than what is in the 28 blocks. May be able to reduce gasket warpage in certain areas by reducing some of hole sizes.
    The guy in Walla Walla who has the water jet did respond but has 2+ month backlog. I have to talk to him to see what all he requires. I do not have cad capabilities anymore.
    Dan M,s block shows this very clearly.
    IMG_20230127_172504483.jpg
     
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  27. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 3,080

    Beanscoot
    Member

    I would think that would definitely be true, and highly desirable.
     
  28. kustomrooster
    Joined: Sep 12, 2009
    Posts: 63

    kustomrooster
    Member
    from TN

    Hey guys been putting some miles on my 490 speedster. I've had multiple problems with the distributor. I thought I had pieced together a good 1. Nope!!! Spent a couple hours on the side of the road todayo_O!! The earlyer distributors were different from the 28, no mechanical advance. I posted a pic of one in a great race car maby a Tempest. Also I see grumpy Gabby has a interesting 1! Any ideas on a different distributor?
     
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  29. kustomrooster
    Joined: Sep 12, 2009
    Posts: 63

    kustomrooster
    Member
    from TN

    A update. I used a 28 distributor with the early gear and cut the shaft down. Running good so far!
    Rooster
     
  30. Dan Morrison
    Joined: Jan 20, 2021
    Posts: 100

    Dan Morrison

    I know this is about engines but I acquired a radiator and shell for my speedster... Thought I'd share. My speedster (pile of parts) is starting to take on a personality.
     

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