I am considering running the T 6 volt rather than 12. Other than not being able to run a newer radio what would the other drawbacks be?
Good function on 6V requires more attention to details of connection and ground and to condition/resistance of switches and relays. If everything is right, it works. 12V will keep working well enough when you actually have lots of small problems from deteriorated connections, burned contacts in solenoids, and so on. 6V also means you will have to carry spare bulbs and such, as no one out there will have heard of such devices.
bruce got me to thinking, and that's usually dangerous for me i don't mean to hijack, but is my thinking correct that if i switch over to 12 volt and NOT replace wiring, that 'cracked' or chafed insulation on wires will allow 12 volt to jump out and short easier than 6 volt would? bottom line: i don't wanna re-wire an entire '51 chevy in my small ass garage, but i do wanna convert to 12... tred.
[ QUOTE ] but is my thinking correct that if i switch over to 12 volt and NOT replace wiring, that 'cracked' or chafed insulation on wires will allow 12 volt to jump out and short easier than 6 volt would? bottom line: i don't wanna re-wire an entire '51 chevy in my small ass garage [/ QUOTE ] Don't be afraid to change over your wiring. It's the best thing you could ever learn regarding tracing electrical problems in the future. If you have poor insulation on your old tired wiring. The voltage will not make a difference if its shorting or grounding out. If its bad, replace it. Space is not an issue. I have rewired in a one stall twice so far. The only space issue, I ever complained about is when I'm upside down trying to get my big head under the dash.
Yes--wiring is absolutely critical for safety and function, regardless of voltage. If you have 1951 wiring with insulation that crumbles at a touch, get busy--you can go resto with a repro harness that plugs right in, leaving only minor work to convert to 12, or get aftermarket, or wire from scratch. Bad wiring will keep you busy endlessly chasing problems and explaining to copd why your tailights don't work. Even with a steep learning cirve, rewiring is MUCH easier than coping with an endless parade of off, flicker, fail, burn, whack it with a wrench and see if it'll go on...
very good advice, thank you. i am just a bit intimidated by re-wiring, my question should have been (knowing that the wiring that i can easily see is in good condition) would 12 volt jump out of a small hidden crack in the insulation whereas 6 volt is too weak to 'jump' in other words, can i get by with converting to 12 volt and not replacing all the wires? anyone have any luck doing just that? tred.
you've probable seen my post about 12v to 6v reducer. my wife and i rescued our car from a wrecking yard and looking at the condition of the wiring which in some areas dosent look too bad but im taking no chances. im going for the whole rewire kit to do it right the idea of putting enough money into a car and having some mystery wire burning it down i do not want to happen. just my .02c
12 v is in effect higher pressure in the line--it might cross over high resistance better than 6. 6v stuff is higher amps (2X), so the melting and fire are a bit quicker... I personally like wiring to 6V standards, with heavier gauge wire, but use 12V. Usually better jumping to ground is not an issue--a typical bare wire is or isn't grounded, and if it is, it will melt down and burn on 6 or 12... When a bad wire goes, it will usually damage adjacent wires.
[ QUOTE ] very good advice, thank you. i am just a bit intimidated by re-wiring, my question should have been (knowing that the wiring that i can easily see is in good condition) would 12 volt jump out of a small hidden crack in the insulation whereas 6 volt is too weak to 'jump' in other words, can i get by with converting to 12 volt and not replacing all the wires? anyone have any luck doing just that? tred. [/ QUOTE ] Hey, I'm just a silly girl and I'm doing it, which means that you can do it too! I pulled wires out of faye that had been on fire at some point, which is kinda scary. A good wiring kit is not terribly expensive and the wires come pre-labeled. Stacey
You blow a headlight or tail light, with 6V you better have one with you. Also 6V is usually positive ground. Confuses the shit out of everybody. Then there's that time you forget, leave your lights on at the hotel in East Podunk and need a jump. You can find a 12V one wire alternator, 1159 tail light bulbs, batteries and headlights at any parts store in the country. Remember things never break at home. It'll die on you on a trip or cause you to miss a trip awaiting mail ordered parts. Go with 12V. Even the restorers do it now. Dim yellow 6 volt headlights that vary with engine rpm and tail/brake lights that can only be seen when when it's dark enough should stay lost in the 50's as far as I'm concerned. When that deer or kid jumps out in front of me at night I want to see it BEFORE I hit it. Save the 6 volts and generators for the museum cars.
I'm currently digging my old 6v stuff, but I know it's best to rewire it. I'm with PeteJoe.. it's not the wiring that bothers me, it's the cramped quarters working under the dash! speaking of GOOD thick wire, where do you guys buy the stuff online? Lowes is the only home improvement type place in town, and their wiring is expensive and SUCKS>. the large gauge shit is not flexy enough for my standards. The kits seem like they charge you about 2x the cost of the parts if you just do it yourself. Anyone got any leads on a good wire supplier?
I'm with all the rest,,,,rewire and swith to 12 volt. One major problem with 6 volt is dim headlights,,,even with a good ground.HRP
"it's not the wiring that bothers me, it's the cramped quarters working under the dash!" When I did my '48 (dang complicated late models), I did virtually all the work inside the house. As I did each section, I ran a sample wire for each route and built the harness to that length. I removed the light switch and gauge cluster from the car, built everythig onto those assemblies, then dragged the whole mess out to the car and installed it.
And what happens when your 6v battery goes dead? Good luck finding someone who knows how to jump it with 12v without frying your car. As for wire, I stock up at the swap meets, but if I need something now I get belden stuff from napa. It's about $4 a roll there.
I am going to be wiring it from scratch so I could go either way. Carrying xtra bulbs around would be no biggie as well as a battery since I will have the '48 as well to store stuff in. The engine I am using is out of a 6 volt car and I just thought it might be easier to use the origional distibuter than trying to hunt down this other one that I have been told to use. This is what happens when you have a boring job, all I think about is how to make my truck a little different. Especially now that I have some competition with another closed cab T truck being built by another HAMBer.
Your distributor doesn't care whether you feed it on 6 or 12--just get the right coil and any resistor that it needs. Boss Kettering cleverly incorporated software capable of processing varying voltages in the original design...
If you got some cracked wiring now, the rest will go soon. REWIRE. With the kits that are labeled, it not all that hard. Just take your time in figuring where it all goes and don't try to rush the job. Ive wired four cars - three with kits and never had and never had to worry about electrical problems. Things like switches don't need to be replaced. I have been using my 6 volt ignition, light and heater switches on 12 volts and they work perfectly. Same with distributor. A good source of wire (many sizes and colors) is JC Whitney. For the car I did without a kit I used their wire and didn't have any problem with it
My F1 pickup is 6v. The people I bought it from rewired it (sort of half-assed, but with some work it's okay), and put in a new battery. Works fine. I've also considered going to 12v, but since the 6v system hasn't given me any probs, I've decided to put off changing it until something relatively substantial needs replacing (battery, generator etc.) Here's some conclusions I've come to while contemplating the move: (1) It's not THAT hard to find 6v bulbs (NAPA), and it's no big deal to carry spares (how much room does a bulb take up in the glove box?) And besides, who here actually fixes a burned out bulb on the road -- 12v or 6v, most guys just get it home, unless they're on a big road trip. (2) On the subject of lights, 6v lights are indeed a bit dimmer (IMHO), but if you're in a bright urban/suburban area, it's not a big deal. And the dim, yellowy color is pleasantly old-timey looking. (3) I don't know what kind of engine is in your car, but I've read that you can tell the sound of a Flathead being turned over with 6v. I've never really compared, but old-timers swear it's true. I think the difference is because a lot of people don't have their starters reworked for 12v when they switch, so they turn faster than before. Again, perhaps it's a consideration if you want something old-timey. (4) Jump starting? Sissy stuff. These are hot rods -- BUMP starting. (5) Parts selection is maddeningly limited w/ 6v systems. For temp and oil gauges I had to go with mechanical. That's no biggie, but for a tach I haven't come up with anything still being made. Not much around used either. I know what you mean about being different by having a 6v system. It's kind of a weird badge of honor, to me. Bottom line: if everything's in good shape, a 6v system seems to work fine for a hobby-type vehicle. If I were driving it seven days a week, 52 weeks a year, yeah, I might change it. But since that's not the case, I'm pretty happy with it. I think a lot of people hate 6v systems because so many of them are run down, with shot wiring and components. Hell, a 12v system like that will give you fits too. Dave
I plan on running a '55 Plymouth 260 Poly motor which is 6 volt. I am building the T from scratch so I could wire it either way. I have a while to get to the point of wiring it I am just trying to plan ahead.
You can buy six volt GM one-wire alternators from several sources (mostly old Ford parts suppliers) or for an original look you can take your generator case and open it up on a lathe and insert a Mitsubishi alternator inside of it and secure it with a couple of set screws around the old generator case. A competent hot rod friendly alternator shop can rig the Jap alt to make six volts. Works good and looks stock.
What do you do for a heater motor when you switch from 6v to 12v? Jman... Painless makes a wiring harness specifically for T's. I think it is 8 circuit. I didnt use a harness on my T, I just bought a bunch of different colored wire and took my time doing one circuit at a time. I bought the fuse panel from JCWhitney.
[ QUOTE ] You can buy six volt GM one-wire alternators from several sources (mostly old Ford parts suppliers) or for an original look you can take your generator case and open it up on a lathe and insert a Mitsubishi alternator inside of it and secure it with a couple of set screws around the old generator case. A competent hot rod friendly alternator shop can rig the Jap alt to make six volts. Works good and looks stock. [/ QUOTE ] Awesome idea, and I had not thought about doing this. I'm definately not replacing the generator if it ever goes out on me, and this looks like a great alternative. It's not like I need 300 amps of alternator power either. As for headlights, the lights on my Ford are brighter than on my '95 jetta (shitty reflector design)... Also, I bought 6006 (t3 7" round) headlights for my ford for 6.49 each at O'Reilly auto parts.. So far, most 6v stuff I've dealt in is CHEAPER than 12v. I also scored 5 boxes of various sizes Westinghouse 6v lights at an auction here, so I'm set well into the next century on lighting if I choose to remain 6V. I've seen people sell 6006 headlights for nearly 50 dollars on ebay, so I was paranoid they'd be spendy, but nope.. Napa even sells them for about 11 bucks each.
When I rewired my '48 Ford, doing it right after a long time spent learning how the hard way (darkness, punctuated by the occasional fire...), I went nuts on wire gauge on the 6V system. This was a reaction--my first wiring job on the car was probably the very first rod wiring kit EVER, marketed by Tom McMullen in the early sixties. It was a skimpy 12V kit, and the tiny headlight wires immediately heated up and cycled the car's circuit breakers as I drove--too exciting even for a teenager to drive. I followed the basic Ford pattern, but on the headlights and a couple of other circuits I had come to see as essential to my survival I went to 10 gauge wire. The improvement in my headlights over the original spec 14 gauge was very noticeable--my lights were just as bright as a late model, before halogens and such of course. It's cheap and easy to overdo the major circuits, and sometimes you get a surprise. Also, try to get bulbs manufactured recently--an oldy might have leaked in air while sitting on the shelf for thirty years. Everything needs to be right on a 6V, as you don't have the volts to blast through extra resistance.
[ QUOTE ] (3) I don't know what kind of engine is in your car, but I've read that you can tell the sound of a Flathead being turned over with 6v. I've never really compared, but old-timers swear it's true. I think the difference is because a lot of people don't have their starters reworked for 12v when they switch, so they turn faster than before. Again, perhaps it's a consideration if you want something old-timey. [/ QUOTE ] Nothing equals the sound of a flathead being started on 6v, easy to tell........Oldtimer???? I know I'm getting closer all the time but I hope I'm not there yet!!!
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