every time i think i've got the entire blueprint in my head for my '26 T modified i think of something else that's not decided. i've more or less always felt that the proper place for the front axle is directly lined up with the radiator/shell; front to back, that is. however, it's pretty hard to get a car as low as i want mine to be when you're restricted by the physical size of a transverse mounted spring, on top of the axle, and below the frame/radiator/shell. i've liked the looks of cars like the bo jones modified and others; but never thought i'd want that type of front end on my own car. i'm changing my position on this, though. while i've got just about all the details for the car worked out in my head, i think i'm going to put the axle out in front of the radiator/shell like most modifieds have it. here's the options as i see them: 1. quarter elliptics 2. suicide 3. connect the spring to the wishbone i've never known anyone personnaly who had a car with quarter elliptic front springs. i've heard that they don't handle particularly well and that it's nearly impossible to engineer/install shocks in any manner that actually dampens bounce/rebound. this is only rumor to me, though. i don't like most T bucket suicide front ends. i think that it's because the crossmember and spring perch are smack dab right up against the radiator/shell. i've seen several modifieds with the crossmember a foot or more ahead of the radiator/shell and for the most part i like (or at least could live with) the way they look. on most of these cars, shocks are either non-existant or have a tendency to look out of place way up there. i've heard a lot of criticism of wishbones carrying the weight of the car when the spring is mounted directly to them. i've seen a hole drilled in the wishbone with the spring-perch bolted directly in place. i've seen similar but with a bung welded in place. and i've seen a collar welded around the wishbone to which the spring-perch is attached. with that introduction, here's the point: would those of you who actually have experience with one or more of these types of front ends please discuss on here the pros and cons of each method? THANX in advance. i know there's LOTS of talent and experience on here and i'm hoping to get plenty of info on which to base my decision. wheelbase will be 110" +/- and engine will be 401 nailhead.
how about a split wisbone front end with the spring perches mounted through the wisbones? With a stock axle this gets the front low and with a dropped way low. I have seen this done on a number of T-buckets and they get rignt down there if you know what I mean.
I had the 1/4 elliptic on mine when I built it with lever shocks. It road like a Cadillac (I also had paralelle Leaves in the rear which WERE Cadillac) The reason I switched to suicide was the turning radius A u-turn ANYWHERE was out of the question, usually a double or even triple K turn was called for. That was with a 154" wheelbase if your building a modified the wheelbase will be much shorter but I see this same problem none the less. On My modified I'm going suicide spring behind on the batwings with a 4" dropped axle I can't give you any info on this yet because it's not finished but if your not DONE by April I'll give ya the lowdown. Hope this helps ya out some.
some more info, that i should have included at the first: wheelbase will be somewhere around 110 inches. engine will be 401 nailhead. yeah, i know, prolly more weight than most modifieds have in the engine compartment, but it's what i want. (original post edited to include this info)
Last summer i had this modified with "wishbone" set up. Wishbones were reinforced with extra thick steel plate in the area where the perch was welded. Driveability of the car was good. I didn´t even have the shocks in front.But have to say it sure needs shocks.
jp, could you post a pic of the actual connection of the spring-perch and the wishbone, please? it looks like a huge "boxing plate" affair which probably would add tremendously to the strength of the wishbone at what otherwise would be the weakest point. very interesting...
maybe i've missed what i'm looking for when i look at other posts and sites. i've read lots of posts and seen lots of pix showing how it's done. what i'm looking for is the voice of experience; after owning and driving a car with one of these front ends what do you like and what don't you like about your particular set-up? thank you, jaypee, for giving some input to that question.
[ QUOTE ] jp, could you post a pic of the actual connection of the spring-perch and the wishbone, please? it looks like a huge "boxing plate" affair which probably would add tremendously to the strength of the wishbone at what otherwise would be the weakest point. very interesting... [/ QUOTE ] There you go. hope this helps.
I built my 1/4 elliptic front suspension last spring for my T-bucket. My car has 117(!)inch wheelbase with a A spring in the rear. For springs, I used a 53 F-100 spring pack, cutting the main leaf on each side to 12" with 2 additional leafs per side. Drilled locating holes in the spring(that sucked) and mounted them in a pocket on the frame rail bottom 6 inches back from the front of the frame. I welded F-100 lower shock mounts to the inside of the split wishbones about 8" back from the axle and used F-1 shock mounts to mount the upper end. The 1/4 elliptic front rides great. I need to pull some leaves out of the rear A spring to match the front's ride. The one problem I'm having is that on certain roads at around 60 mph, the front wheels will start hopping from side to side. Still trying to figure it out. Could very well be the alignment(did it at home with a tape measure), the slightly bent rim, or that I mounted the shocks too far back from the axle centerline. The downside of the 1/4 elliptics is that I had to swap the spindles and run the tie rod in Front of the axle, screwing up the Ackerman. I was going to go with Total Performance's steering arms that kick the tie rod ends forward and out. Sorry for being long winded, but I would defintely use this set-up again. Karl
I too am interested in a 1/4 elliptic front end......check out this picture, the front end seems to cover everything as far as ride and handling goes.........pretty much a four bar with shocks and no need for a panard bar. I understand you are looking for first hand info(I don't have it) but maybe someone will chime in re: this set up.......
[ QUOTE ] Drilled locating holes in the spring(that sucked) [/ QUOTE ] Yeah I'd forgotten about that........lol I used 1960 F truck spring cutting wasn't so bad But they wouldn't drill for shit! After dulling 2 bits and buying and dulling a 3rd I took it to a machine shop wher he broke 3 Carbide Bits AND a PUNCH bit...lol That part is a little tough.
I made my front/rear springs by cuting new trailer springs(1 ton) 2" past the center hole and driled another hole.Treat driling the spring like it is stainless steel,that is a lot of pressure,slow speed,and a lot of coolent. Another way we use at work to drill hardend material (Rem 400/500,AR,T-!) is to heat a SMALL area just to red with a torch. I dident heat my springs and had no problem with driling them using a Harbor Fraight 16 speed drill press. Fred
[ QUOTE ] I too am interested in a 1/4 elliptic front end......check out this picture, the front end seems to cover everything as far as ride and handling goes.........pretty much a four bar with shocks and no need for a panard bar. I understand you are looking for first hand info(I don't have it) but maybe someone will chime in re: this set up....... [/ QUOTE ] I am fairly certain that this set-up is on an English-built '27 modified built by a chap named Nick Harrison. It was/is a top car that was magazine featured and won many awards. The car is still around the UK scene though looks very different now (same suspension though). I've got a feeling that the I-beam was from a E83W Fordson and that the quarter eliptics were originally a single spring cut in half (I think) and the top link does indeed make up a four-bar arrangement.
there have been a few good comments on here so far and a couple of folks have touched on the actual question asked at the beginning: "would those of you who actually have experience with one or more of these types of front ends please discuss on here the pros and cons of each method?" doesn't ANYONE on here have a car with one of these suspensions that can critique it?
Good information on this thread Don't forget to plan your radiator setup, a suicide perch takes up a lot of space. If your radiator is going to be right over the crossmember, quarter elliptics might be best.Make a cardboard dummy of your radiator and set it up while you are mocking up the suspension Keep us posted
[ QUOTE ] The reason I switched to suicide was the turning radius [/ QUOTE ] While I don't have experience with suicide front ends etc., I would like to touch on the turning radii bit. I see a lot cars with overly long steering stops. These are the - usually - stainless or chrome plated long nuts which bolt the kingpin locks in place. Not too many years back, these nuts were supplied in stainless by hot rod supply outfits - like the Deuce Factory - and they were too long as was. When my 32 was first up and running I found the turning radii to be too large and in fact was worse than my 88 Mustang GT. The cure was to cut the stainless nut down, .125 first time, 2nd time was another .125 cut off which made things just right. You do have to balance the length of the stop nut against where the internal stops are in your steering box. Sometimes this entails moving the Pitman arm over one notch and other times a simple adjustment of the drag link - which can lead to steering wheel off-level problems. It is a juggling act, but with a little bit of adjusting, trying and thinking things through you'll come out ok. Big thing is, don't use the steering boxes internal stops for steering stops. That leads to steering box damage. Fwiw - the last set of stainless steering stops I bought - from the Deuce Factory again, (good place to deal with) - they were the correct length to start with. Fwiw 2 - you can make a very nice pair of steering stops by cutting a pair of Chevy (7/16 - NF) mag wheel lugnuts down to the length required - which also gets you a flat on the seating surface. Use a stainless locknut with these - and the other stop nuts as well. Thank Enjenjo for this second tip, he mentioned it in passing and then I realized I had a whole can of mag lugs in various sizes and could have cut a couple of the Chevy's down.
Hi Atch, I'm BenD and I've owned a 1/4 ellip modified. I liked the ride, but turning radius, ackerman and wheel hop was an issue. I sold the car before I got it all lined out. Most cars I see using them have big shocks and a steering dampener. Might have made mine maneagable, but I can't say positively. That said, I think the cross spring thru the bone is the way i would go next time. I believe it'd be easier to use off the shelf/early ford parts without modifications for what you're doing. Cross springs are tried and true on the street. 1/4's are a track thing. My opinion. Ben
Steering stops were not my problem.(Had Full Movement lock to lock.) I suspect it was the 154" wheelbase, going suicide knocked it down to 134" made Curb To Curb easier.
I am building a roadster P/U with about a 120" wheelbase...quarter E's front and back.....wait until summer and I will let ya know how it does! A buddy of mine did say he had a 1/4 E setup and all he told me was to use a sway bar because it may roll a bit in the corners.....me being the hardheaded guy I am will try it without first!!
Atch, I'm in the final stages finishing off my modified...Q/E's were homemade from trailer springs and mounts to a Model A front axle via Model T rear spring shackles. Split, extended bones and houdailles. E-mail me at [email protected] and I'll send you as many detail photos as you like. But to your question: I still don't have the camber right, brake adjustments need tweaking, and the `37 Chevy steering box needs a rebuild, but I'm loving the way it drives already. No Ackerman problems, and it corners like it's on rails -- much better than my rpu with Jag suspension. Go for it!
Hi Atch, I'm Visor, and I rode in BenD's 1/4 elipped, low slung, no floors, no top rod,down I-44 in the rain at some God forsaken speed and lived to tell about it! It was a great ride! Atch.. try and recall Kenny's(choprods) set up in the 30A roadster. I would say that was as strong as a wishbone to spring job that your're going to find. I would go with that concept. My two. M. ----------------------------------------------------------- Opossum Benders Mid Mo. Chapter
Spring behind and mounted to the wishbone...but my car hasn't officially been driven yet so I've got no good input for you. My take is you're going to have a hard time finding someone who is willing to step up and say "My car was set up this way and it sucked" because most here build their own and it's kind of like saying you're bad at it. I personally wouldn't have problem saying it - I've done a few things to my car that were torn off because I knew they would suck before the weld had even cooled. Overall I'd say they're probably all proven, all workable, and can all look right. I understood spring behind and liked the look so that's what I went with.
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