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Technical ‘53 Dodge wagon brakes

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Byron McMahon, Jun 29, 2019.

  1. Byron McMahon
    Joined: Jun 3, 2016
    Posts: 13

    Byron McMahon

    66538008-2391-4BA1-B704-A24ACC9B3CCE.jpeg
    Hey fellas, picked up this nice Meadowbrook from Oregon and shipping it to Hawaii. She did great on the 500 mile run to Seattle, although I feel a little guilty for pushing the flat six over 70mph the whole way.
    Anyways I’d like to put a dual pot MC with boost in there, but I’m having trouble finding parts. Any idea what might fit with minimal fabrication? Thanks for your 2 cents!
     

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  2. TrailerTrashToo
    Joined: Jun 20, 2018
    Posts: 634

    TrailerTrashToo
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Going to need some more info.

    1. Is the brake master cylinder on the firewall or under the floor?

    2. What is the bore diameter of the master cylinder?

    General comments, based on converting a 1959 Ford F250 (on firewall) and a 1962 Volvo PV544 (deep in the engine compartment, facing foreward).

    In general, match the bore size of the new dual pot master cylinder to the bore size of the original single pot master cylinder.

    In the case of the F250 (done over 30 years ago - before Al Gore invented the internet), a search of the parts catalog found a 3/4 ton Chevy pickup (approximately 1968 - if memory is working) that used the same sized bore. The bolt pattern (to the firewall) was different, I made an adapter plate out of 1/4" steel. I used an adjustable proportioning valve on the rear brake circuit (the rear brakes wanted to lock first - typical of old pickup trucks) and a 10 PSI check valve on the front brake circuit.

    On the Volvo, I found a Wilwood dual pot master cylinder with the same bore size, that had 2 remote reservoirs. Installation was much more complicated, as the Volvo was due for new brake lines.
     
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  3. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 11,566

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    @Byron McMahon .....Very Nice Find!......... and relatively rare.

    I like the '53/'54 Dodges....have a '53 Diplomat Hardtop
     
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  4. bct
    Joined: Apr 4, 2005
    Posts: 3,090

    bct
    Member

    Tough one. The master is the pedal mount and it is in a tough busy area. I built one for a ford dual master. It had a bell crank, bushings and linkages. Sat low too. Not ideal.
     
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  5. vintage6t
    Joined: Jul 30, 2007
    Posts: 345

    vintage6t
    Member
    from CT

    I don't know the exact details but to keep the current MC as the pedal mount you do the following. Gut the current MC and leave it in place as the pedal mount. Get a new push rod to run clear through the gutted MC to a new MC mounted behind the original.



    Sent from my SM-G950U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  6. scrap metal 48
    Joined: Sep 6, 2009
    Posts: 5,984

    scrap metal 48
    Member

    Very cool wagon...
     
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  7. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 27,195

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That might be your most practical solution. Just make the push rod to the booster/mc extra stout.
    Step father #2 had a 53 Dodge 4 door back in the 60's and I don't remember the brakes needing a booster though. Not a bad old car but my sister was rough on clutches in it when she started driving it when she got up in high school.
     
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  8. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 11,566

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    I agree. The stock brakes, if in good operating condition, do not need a booster. The fronts, which do the majority of the braking effort, are twin leading shoe and quite powerful for their size.

    If you find them not to your liking, a disc brake conversion, with correctly sized M/C and calipers, will also do the job without a booster.

    Boosters are needed in some applications, but they are also just the automatic ‘go to’ because ‘everybody does it’. In many case, carefully selected components, cylinder bore sizes, drum or disc diameter, etc. yields a well balanced system with good performance and moderate pedal pressure.

    Ray
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
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  9. Byron McMahon
    Joined: Jun 3, 2016
    Posts: 13

    Byron McMahon

    It's under the floor. Not sure of the bore.
     
  10. Byron McMahon
    Joined: Jun 3, 2016
    Posts: 13

    Byron McMahon

    That's genius! The car arrives here in Hawaii next week. Brakes are first on the list.
     
  11. Byron McMahon
    Joined: Jun 3, 2016
    Posts: 13

    Byron McMahon

    Well maybe just a thorough going through of the stock system will be sufficient. I guess I can start by adjusting and bleeding and see where that takes me.
     
  12. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 11,566

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Good idea. However, I will caution you that the Mopar brakes are a bit finicky about adjustment. For that reason and many more, You would be well served to buy a Factory Shop Manual, either original or reprint They are invaluable for maintaining your Dodge. Especially if you are doing your own work, but also for the mechanic you may sometime have occasion to hire who likely will have little or no experience on that era car. Unless, of course, he is an ol' timer like many of us here on the HAMB. ;)

    Ray
     
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  13. derbydad276
    Joined: May 29, 2011
    Posts: 1,313

    derbydad276
    Member

    I am updating my 53 Coronet this winter ... so far I have the Scarebird kit for the front ... it allows you to use your stock wheels
    ECI under floor master cylinder kit

    for the rear Im using a cherokee XJ axle ... keeping it mopar 3.55 gear ratio will help me keep up in traffic compared to the 3.90 gear set that is under it now you will need to get a new drive shaft made

    also great info here
    http://p15-d24.com/forum/4-p15-d24-forum/


    https://scarebird.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=64&product_id=97

    http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/chrysler_master_assemblies.html

    Cherokee axle under the rear ... to update rear brakes
     
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  14. What vintage 6t said above this requires only minor fab work. don't know what island you are on but I have this set up on 51 dodge works fine .If you are on big island I could show you. will try to take a pic.
     
  15. raff23089
    Joined: May 15, 2010
    Posts: 65

    raff23089
    Member


    What he said. I used an ECI under floor master, Cherokee rear axle and Rusty Hope front disc kit. No complaints with any of it.

    http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/chrysler_master_assemblies.html
    http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/dodge_plymouth_discbrake_conversions.html
    http://rustyhope.com/site/
     
  16. Work In Progress
    Joined: Dec 14, 2010
    Posts: 153

    Work In Progress
    Member

    I would double check the stock wheels with Scarebird. There have been issues ending with new rims.


    Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  17. My1stcar
    Joined: May 11, 2010
    Posts: 11

    My1stcar
    Member
    from Blaine MN

    Derbydad, Scarebird, ECI, and Cherokee 8 1/4 is my big want for my 48. I have the Scarebird and still on the fence abouth the Cherokee rear end because I cand afford the parts I would have to let go of the money for installation. Conversation with Mark at ECI he says that the S-10 Caliper amd stock brakes are not compatible with master cylinder for my 48, although I found a 49 Dodge with Scarebird, ECI and stock rear end.
    QUESTIONS TO DEBYDAD: Are you making all of the changes at once. Have you started the rear end swap? What have you finished?
     

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