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“What joy have I in June's return?" The June 2012 Banger Meet

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Crazydaddyo, Jun 2, 2012.

  1. BHT8BALL
    Joined: Aug 22, 2010
    Posts: 262

    BHT8BALL
    Member

    Mac, do to time constraints weren't able to find OX5 rods so I made a close approximation. I used a stock stroke "B" crank 305 Chev pistons & custom rods. Pat
     

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  2. BHT8BALL
    Joined: Aug 22, 2010
    Posts: 262

    BHT8BALL
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    Mac, all the pictures didn't show up so here's some more, Pat
     

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  3. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    There were a couple stripped OX-5 engines at Cable Airport in So Cal
     
  4. BHT8BALL
    Joined: Aug 22, 2010
    Posts: 262

    BHT8BALL
    Member

    What color were the stripes? P
     
  5. Bluto, are you still in CA :)???
     
  6. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Pat it's was about 4 AM here ..... Red, White, and Blue

    Mac..... nope
     
  7. CA 31 Victoria
    Joined: May 2, 2011
    Posts: 57

    CA 31 Victoria
    Member
    from California

  8. Thanks for letting know, Bluto!!!

    Anyone near enough the Cable Airport that would be willing to look into those Jennys? I'd be interested in a set (of 4) of those connecting rods... unless they just wanna give'm away, then I'd gladly rid them of as many as they want :)
     
  9. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Bill

    Sorry I forgot it was your turn to watch me :D

    I just did a Google and found tons of parts in places like FLA :eek:

    I have a couple original OX5 lapel pins from Geo.Rand you know the BEE GEE and Bugatti dealer..... from waaaay long ago but never posted them because they are not Banger or HAMB stuff.
     
  10. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    And here is the M&B engine in it's natural habitat. I just took it for inspection so no times or any thing like that.
     

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  11. BHT8BALL
    Joined: Aug 22, 2010
    Posts: 262

    BHT8BALL
    Member

    Did the inspectors have any suggestions? I volunteered to be an inspector at the Santa Margarita hill climb July 7th. The last time was at the Muroc reunion in '95, I got a lot of flak for suggesting the tie-wraps be removed from the headers! When you see an engine run on the Dyno with orange-yellow glow to the headers you realize it's not a good mounting point for a plastic wrap. Good luck with your effort, may all the work be worth it. Pat
     
  12. That's really funny Pat. Even I know you are supposed to use coat hanger wire for that !!! :eek:
    Ron
     
  13. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    We knew that the roll cage needed to be brought up to date and had some thoughts on what we would do. Steve had a cheaper and easier idea that is what I will do.They want a second nozzle on the fire line between the pan and headers. I have been through this before and it has always been decided that the two nozzle rule was made with V8 engines in mind and should not be done on a V4 engine. I think this time I will add the extra nozzle as it's easier than going around again. We forgot the tie wraps on the headers. I should have them on for next month.
     
  14. BHT8BALL
    Joined: Aug 22, 2010
    Posts: 262

    BHT8BALL
    Member

    I get it, the coat hanger acts as an insulator for the tie wrap, that's more clever than I thought. I'll print out your suggestion & hang it on my display wall. 2X, Pat
     
  15. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Duct tape..... DUCT TAPE!!!

    The smoke is a good EX temp indicator and cheaper than a gauge. Looks more ''RACE'' than Telephone Company
     
  16. BHT8BALL
    Joined: Aug 22, 2010
    Posts: 262

    BHT8BALL
    Member

    Jim, I talked with Seth this morning, he said he had a great conversation with about the Hal head and other things. Hope you can make some progress, Pat
     
  17. Gaters
    Joined: Dec 29, 2007
    Posts: 565

    Gaters
    Member

    Need some help. My roadster is running a 32 trans with Zephyr gears in a 32 cross member in an A frame. My problems is that the trans is jammed into 2nd gear. I was driving it down the street came to a STOP sign and went to shift and I couldn't get it out of second gear.

    It disengages when I push in the clutch but it won't budge outta 2nd gear. I pulled the top off the trans but I didn't want to pry on anything for fear of ruining the gears. I tried a number of basic things by hand but it seems to be stuck. I do not see any shavings or broken parts. I am hoping I don't have to pull the radiator, motor and all to fix this if I can help it. If so, then I'll deal with it that way. Just didn't want to go through all that and find out there may be a simpler way to fix it.

    Would pictures help??
    Any experience, advice or instruction would be great.

    Thanks,

    Chris
     
  18. BHT8BALL
    Joined: Aug 22, 2010
    Posts: 262

    BHT8BALL
    Member

    Chris, sounds like the synchro hub is too far back & is jammed, you can try gently tapping the hub forward maybe with the clutch dis engaged. Do you have a '39 shifter & '39 or later synchro hub? You might have incompatible parts mixed in there. Picture would help, showing the top & the hub. Pat
     
  19. Gaters
    Joined: Dec 29, 2007
    Posts: 565

    Gaters
    Member

    Pat! Thanks, I'll post pictures after I take a few to show the situation. Like I said, I din;t want to start banging around in there when I really don't know which way to try and push or pull. the Case and top are all 32 but the gears are Zephyr but I don't know what year. I hope the pictures will help tell the tale.

    Thanks for the quick response!
     
  20. Gaters
    Joined: Dec 29, 2007
    Posts: 565

    Gaters
    Member

    A few photos to possibly help with any descriptions or instruction.

    Case and topper
    [​IMG]

    Gear set in current condition QUESTION: How do you tell the Zephyr gear from stock?
    [​IMG]

    See red arrow: I noticed that the gear is not in the same position as the housing. Does this gear move in and out of this section as you shift?
    [​IMG]

    See red arrow: This area also looks to be partially in/out or off/on where it should be.
    [​IMG]

    Sorry if this may be basic stuff for you guys but I've never torn into the transmission yet. That being said, if you choose to respond I'd appreciate descriptions at their base level.

    Thanks in advance,

    Chris
     
  21. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Well it over-ran the detents is my guess.

    I'd also check the ball bearings at both ends.

    Remember I am not a Ford guy

    In any case it has to come out and get better unless you want this to happen again in the middle of no-where
     
  22. Chris, looks like the synchronizer is comming apart. If that little ball bearing comes out you will have a mess. I would suggest you pickup a copy of a book Mac Van Pelt wrote about these transmissions. Its called " The Ins and Outs of Early Ford Transmissions " The book explains everything so anybody will understand. It even explains about Zepher gears in older cases.
     
  23. BHT8BALL
    Joined: Aug 22, 2010
    Posts: 262

    BHT8BALL
    Member

    The position of the shifter forks is different in an early top compared to a '39, while I don't really recommend it, I've seen early tops that people had elongated the mounting holes to move the top forward. The early synchro hub groove for the fork is more centered than the later one. Easiest fix is to find a '39 or F1 top, the F1 was available thru '51. Pat
     
  24. Gaters
    Joined: Dec 29, 2007
    Posts: 565

    Gaters
    Member

    Great stuff guys, thank you very much!

    62pan - I am going to go out and buy that book so I understand the mechanism of these transmissions better myself.

    Pat - See, I didn't know later model tops were interchangeable. I may look into this but part of my struggle is to keep my roadster as is because of its history.

    Thanks fellas!

    Chris
     
  25. Gaters
    Joined: Dec 29, 2007
    Posts: 565

    Gaters
    Member

    This is exactly what I don't want to happen, being caught out somewhere and sidelined having to tow it home.
     
  26. Joe Mac used to modify the forks when he put later gears in an older case. If I remember correctly the later gears have a larger diameter or something. I'm not a transmission guy but had Joe do several for me. He always explained what he did and why. I have one with brazed forks, I think, that I'm going to pull down. If it has the modified forks I will post photo. Just had a thought, is this an older conversion that just went bad or a current conversion?
     
  27. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Transmissions are pretty easy..... The book will make you a hero. Just go step by step..... and You've got expert help here.

    Most of the stuff I have has no book and no one living that's ever worked on it before :)
     
  28. Okay, so I took a 37 case and a 49 column shift trans to Joe Mac. Nowadays that column shift would be called a side shift But a true side shift has the stick (gear shift lever) coming out of the side of the case He swapped the gears and installed new bearings and synhcro's, and he, I think, installed a later fork as can be seen in the pic. I have never been schooled on transmissions, I can take them apart and put them back together. If you treat them right they don't usually break. I'm going to take the gears out of the 37 top loader and install them into a 38 Lincoln side shift. The gears are what Joe called Commercial gears that were used in pickups and vans. They have a lower ratio through the first 2 and I'm planning on using a 5.12 ring and pinion. And, I hope, we will still be able to start in 2nd
    Here is a pic of that fork.
     

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  29. Gaters
    Joined: Dec 29, 2007
    Posts: 565

    Gaters
    Member

    It was an old conversion in the 40's as my dad explained it to me. He was there so he had seen it first hand.
     
  30. Will Kimble
    Joined: Feb 12, 2007
    Posts: 400

    Will Kimble
    Member

    You have to count teeth to tell LZ gears, easiest to count is the main drive gear (input shaft) and it will have 18 or 19 teeth if it is LZ.

    Your synchonizer shouldn't get pulled that far back, it is about to come apart. Even if you don't have LZ gears, you do have a late ('39 and up) synchronizer and you really need a 3" fork (91A). Some guys have ground on the early forks to open them up, but the 91A fork also has a different offset or reach. This might explain why your synchronizer was pushed too far.

    Check to see if your big fork has a "91A" on it. You don't have a double detent tower, so the 91A fork would not be there originally - but with all of the modifications in your tranny it is possible.

    A second check - put the tower in neutral and set it down on the slider gear and synchronizer sleeve. Does it naturally line up the holes in the tower with the holes in the case? Or do you have to shove on it to get the holes to line up? This is another sign that you have the wrong fork.

    If so, the easiest fix would be to keep your existing tower and replace the old fork with a 3" 91A fork - especially if originality is a concern. You could also replace the tower with a later double detent tower, might shift a little more positively but more importantly it might be easier than finding a loose 3" fork. By the way, you can get all of these parts from Mac Van Pelt, the author of the previously recommended book.

    I hope this helps, these are just my thoughts from the pictures but of course there could also be problems with assembly, bearings, etc.

    Will Kimble
     

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