Technical 1940,s Dodge ,Plymouth Steering arms

Is there a company that produces modified steering arms for the early 1940 dodge and plymouths to correct the turning radius when installing rack and pinion.One other item ,I can't seem to find anyone who sells the mounting bushing straps for Cavalier rack and pinions. The 1980 to early 1990 's are discontinued at the dealers and there doesn't seem to be any aftermarkets.Would it be safe to make your own ?

 

i got my staps from the junk yard. i would love to buy steering arms too! i plan on making new ones.

 

Scotty can you explain exactly what I need in the way of steering arms? I just went to the shop and looked at mine and found that the pass side is longer and totally different than the drivers side. If I had 2 identical to the drivers side where it is shorter, is this what I need to turn sharper. I know that I cannot use one from the other side but just saying if it were possible.I will check out the scrape yards and maybe the newer car racks use the same size rubber mount because there are no older cars left.Thanks Up date .After measuring i found that they are the same length.

 

I think you'd be better off to visit your local junkyard for those rack mounting straps. The one on the passenger side could be easily fabricated, but the one for the driver's side has sort of a V-shape to the strap, that matches the V-shape molded into the mounting grommet. The rack mount on the driver's side prevents lateral movement of the rack when you're steering, while the mount on the passenger side just provides support. Hope this helps. (I'm in the midst of a Cavalier R&P install on my 48 Plymouth).

 

That great info as I have never actually seen the straps as i purchased everything for the project new.Good to know there are a few of us doing the same conversion at the same time

 

one steering arm has an offset that (i think) makes it the same effective lenght as the shorter one. when you lower the car you need to bend the arms to maintain tierod to arm alignment. when you convert to R&P you need to shorten the arms to maintain turning radious. i've done both so i plan to make new arms from some bar stock, some guys cut and weld them to shorten them. they need to be about 2" shorter for R&P. there is a member here "rockable" you should read his build thread. also check www.p14-d24.com

rockable---> http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/member.php?u=100800

 

so if I don't mind losing a bit of turning radius can I just use the stock arms without shorting them?Also I cannot find the proper straps that hold the rack in place. GM has discontinued them and they have crushed all the older vehicles that used them. I would gladly purchase them from someone if they can find me a set.

 

read up on the other site, several guys there run the longer arms. how big of a hurry are you for the straps? i might be able to find some. but it would a few weeks at the earliest.

 

I am running the stock arms on my '40, with the Cavalier R & P. I lost some steering radius too, it was not mentioned before I bought the kit. It is a pain to park. I would be interested in shorter arms too if available. Those arms are under a lot of stress during hard cornering, if cut & welded, it better be by someone highly skilled!

As far as the straps & rubbers, mine came with the rack from the junkyard.

 

The "Cavalier" rack is used in Cavaliers, Sunfires, and Grand Ams of that vintage. I find it hard to believe that they are all crushed in your vicinity. I used two straight arms and bent them for my dropped upright install. Had to have a little machining done on them but can't remember exactly what. My turning radius is less than ideal but the tire is pretty close to rubbing at full lock anyway so I can't get any more.

 

How much did your turning radius change by using the stock steering arms and the Cavalier rack? I don't plan to modify my steering arms if I can avoid it.

 

Skip down to post #33 here:
http://p15-d24.com/topic/19810-cavalier-rack-installation-question/page-2
for info on the steering arms. There is a great diagram & discussion, but I can't copy/paste it directly here for some reason.

I switched my arms from stock '38 Chrysler to mid-30's Dodge, which shortened them by 1.5". The difference is noticeable.

When you set up your P/S pump be sure to get one (early 70's Corvette spec worked for me) with reduced pressure and flow rate. It can bee a bit twitchy otherwise.

 

I can't say exactly per a measurement, but when I drove it stock, it turned sharply. The loss in turning radius is noticeable, but the switch to power R & P is worth it. The steering wheel doesn't have to go round half a dozen times! Now I better swing wide to get in a parking space, often having to back and re-enter the space to get in. But these are long wheelbase cars (117") so a little wide steering is expected.

But I would consider shorter steering arms if I knew where to get them. This is not something I could make, but I sure could do a bolt on if available!

 

I have had a rack & pinion out of an Austin 1800 in my 1940 Dodge since 1973.....to get the tierod pivots in the correct spot in line with the lower inner A Arm pivots I narrowed the rack 9"..........however it still had the problem of the large turning circle.......this was overcome by using a pair of 1955/56 Plymouth steering arms SHORTENED 2"......this was done by an Automotive Blacksmith who cut, welded and reforged the arms........the steering is quite direct and works well........however I have seen another solution to this on the P15-D24 Forum and this involved mounting the steering arms ONE bolt hole FORWARD, ie the steering arms mount onto two bolts on the bottom of the stub axle and this guy moved the arms forward, ie, the rear hole on the steering arm was mounted to the front hole on the stub axle........now this will only work using an extension from a disc brake caliper bracket that comes down and forward to allow the steering arm to locate against a new bolt hole and boss..........I can't find the pic of this adaption unfortunately however I have attached a couple of pics showing the disc brake/rack mount etc on my 1940 Dodge.........you can see the lower caliper mount with the 2 bolts and the steering arm attached......this arm is 2" shorter as mentioned but you can imagine it mounted forward and therefore how it effectively "shortens" the steering arm........I trust this makes sense.........lol............andyd

 

BTW..when I built this car in 1973-75 the Cavalier ( or in OZ the Holden Camira) wasn't invented yet so a centre pivot rack wasn't available........but I'd use one now and work out a way to overcome the large turning circle......what I did back in the early 70's regarding shortening the steering arms is not allowed now but there are ways to overcome anything....lol..........andyd

 

I am not in too big of a hurruy Scotty. I made 2 temperary ones the other day out of aluminum just for the mock up. I will gladly purchase them from you and it will be greatly appreciated. I actually found a set within an hours drive from where I live but the guy said he wouldn't bother removing them for what he can get for them.The right side is an east fabrcation but I would really like to have the proper one for the drivers side..Thanks for the offer.

 

I measured both steering arms last evening and they are 9.5 inches.I think the bend in the pass side was close to 2 inches. I guess with one tierod going up into the steering arm and one tierod going down into the other ,it would balance out for making the long inner tierods parallel to the control arms .I am getting more confused every time i read more info on this conversion.When someone explains what i have to do to illimunate bump steer I am lost.A diagram of what and where i have to measure would be so helpful .

 

I just read fatmans instructions and they state that you match the height of the original inner tierods.I don't know how that would be possible using the center steer rack after looking at my stock setup. The factory inner tire rods are on 2 different planes

 

This made good reading woody

 

Did you try positioning your R&P under the frame? I'm still in the installation phase, but found that I needed to drop the R&P down far enough that the fluid line on the assist cylinder won't hit the frame. The fitting is a metric "bubble flare" style, using 1/4" flared tubing, and a tube nut (The fitting on the other end of the fluid line is completely different). Initially I wanted to convert both installed fluid lines to 4AN style hoses, but was unable to find any sort of adapter fittings that would work. Hopefully this will all work out OK...we'll see.

 

I have my rack temporarely suspended with clamps to the side of the frame using the plates fat man sent me .I am using a cavalier center steer rack so one of the fittings will be close to the frame where the steering housing is located.I noticed that in order to align my rack on the same plane as the control arms pivot point,I have to have it forward more than I would like causing it to be more forward than my steering arms .I can see why other guys were questioning whether or not they could fab up a bracket so as to let them attach their inner tie rods to the rear of the rack.I moved it back some and I might be able to bend my Cav inner tierods enough to not hit on any thing during the up and down travel stage.

 

Woody can you tell me exactly what arms to look for?I haven't measured my arms exactly the way they did in the pic but I will. I originally thought one of my arms were longer than the other until I actually measured them the other evening and found they are both 9.50 inches.I will go out and measure the bolt pattern tomorrow.Great info.

 

Geezer what are 4AN style hoses

 

They're hoses with hydraulic fittings on the ends. A size 4AN would be 1/4". 6AN would be 3/8", etc. The male fitting has a 37° taper, the female has the same taper. It's a metal to metal seal when you tighten the fittings.

 

I believe up to '40 in Plymouth/Dodge had straight axle and the shorter arms. In Chrysler I think up to '37. Desoto: I don't know.

In any event you are looking for arms off straight axle cars (and trucks are worth a look too).

 

Thanks Woody

 

Great info

 

Woody can you tell me what vehicle you got your shorter arms from. I had 2 people check out arms that they were selling from a 36 and there totally different.

 

Woody I had 3 responses back regarding arms from a 36 Dodge and they all said the same think,that the arms are not the same. The one pic I saw was of the passengers side and it was really long with a massive arc .I might have to look sooner than 36.This is a pic of a 36 .The long arc is actually the arm.The drivers side looks similar to mine.

 

I went back and checked the Ebay auction I bought them off, and the seller I.D.'d them as '36 Dodge. At the time I didn't check too carefully since I could tell from the photo they were what I wanted.

I wonder if it is a car vs truck thing, or if Plymouth vs Dodge might be different and they might have been misidentified.

Below are the 3? vs my original '38 arms. The shiny ones are the mystery arms, the matte are the orig '38's.

Note that the outer hole on the long shiny one is not used.