Cost too much, hmmmm I wonder why...lets see 1st 331 made for 3 yrs, '54 331 made one year only, '55 331 made one yr only, 354 made one yr only, 392 made 2 yrs only, plus Chr truck, Ind & marine hemis, Desoto low decks for 4 yrs, high decks for 3 yrs, plus @ least a few Ind. Dodge low deck for 3 yrs, high deck for 3 yrs, plus truck, marine and Ind. Considering the lack of interchangability of parts no wonder the cost was high & how did they keep the parts all sorted?
Big daddy rules I seen him run back in the early 70s at Cayuga race track in southern Ontario Canada. He was the man to beat.
Thinking about (well, I guess more than thinking since I'm down to an appraisal for the bank) buying a 392 powered T-bucket that I eventually want to swap to a 354 so I can use the 392 in my FED Subscribed! Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
old thread- I'll politely stand my ground on this one- let me explain. the early hemis from 1951-54 did not ping, because they had very low compression of only 7.5:1 they didn't ping at first, cuz they had pathetically low CR back then- but so did all the other V8's too, not only the hemi. with a 2-bbl carb they only made 180-195HP, less than what a 3800 Series II GM V-6 makes today. I had a few cars with that V-6 that weighed 3400lb. and they move out pretty good for what they are- but those old Chryslers weighed 1000 lbs. more, with primitive transmissions- they must have been real dogs by today's standards. the 1955 331 had 8.5 compression and that too would not ping because it was low enough CR for regular gasoline of that time. in 1956 they bumped it up to 9:1 CR with the 354 and that's when the detonation probems started, those cars needed high octane fuel to not ping. I have the original road tests from the 50's and the 1st gen Chrysler hemi engines built in 1956-58 would ping on regular gas, and needed high octane, they were 9:1-10:1 CR engines. that is well documented. a big chamber with little or no quench and a lot of piston/head clearance will ping like a mother on low octane fuel at 9.1 on up. Richard Petty talked about his in an interview, about the Chrysler hemi design, and why the 1st generation was shelved after 1958 for 6 years, until the head design was later adapted to the RB block for 1964. He said the Hemi was a great racing engine, but not the ticket for little old ladies to drive back and forth to church and the store every week during the 1950's. Chrysler had a lot of warranty problems with them. according to him the engines burned a lot of valves back then. it was an expensive engine to make, and Chrysler's wedge made as much or more HP in the late 1950's. The later 354 polysphere made as much or more power as the earlier hemis, and it was a canted valve wedge. An old timer for whom I worked for 3 years, told me the Dodge hemi and poly from the 50's would break crankshafts. He ran the Dodge/Plymouth polyspheres and D-500 Hemi in the late 1950's-early 60's. He had a few break on him, and they'd break when he shut them off, then restarted them- not at WOT. this later proved true when I bought 2 polysphere 315-325 CID engines, and the engine pulled from a '57 Dodge had a broken off crank just behind the #1 main journal. the Dodge engines had no balancer from the factory. the problem I see with them is this- building an NA 331 is a looks-only deal, because the cubes are small. it can easily be spanked by a 327 Chevy that weights 200 lbs. less and revs a lot higher and quicker. the same holds true for the 354 hemi- a 350 Chevy can eat its lunch. my own common sense intuition, that little voice says go with the 392 if you really want to tinker with one. the old adage there's no substitute for cubic inches. I have a friend, he and his brother always were big Pontiac guys. well they built a 354 Hemi NA with 1-4bbl for kicks, he said it was the most disappointing engine power-wise he ever built- that it looked impressive as hell but just had nothing when they stepped on it. I replied well yeh, it's only 350 CID with 2" valves, it will basically run like a 350 Pontiac. he replied, "I'd rather step on a 326 Pontiac, than that 354 Hemi"- meaning the 326 had more power. this from a guy who's driven everything from Boss 302's, 383/440 Mopars, 400-428-455 Pontiacs, etc. Well if a 326 had more torque, the NA 354 Hemi doesn't have a chance against a 400-428-455 Poncho. that is saying a lot cuz I drove a 326 2-barrel car back in the 1980's, and know exactly how it drives. saying the Hemi made less than that, made it sound really pathetic to me. this guy would not BS me, he has drag raced and run dirt circle track for decades. my own common sense tells me, the Hemi needs a cam it likes, and the right gear ratios in the trans, rear axle, and/or the right converter so it spools into its power band quickly. a converter that will lock at part throttle 2000 rpm for cruising, but flash to 4000 rpm when flat boarded on a roll or launched. we're talking a 9" converter custom made. that would wake it up. either that, or a stick shift and low gears in the rear axle. for as cool as these old engines are and how they look, I see almost no one running them anymore. just a few here and there. I know 2 guys within 10 miles that have them, one is a Chrysler in a vintage dragster with a blower. the other is a Descto hemi in a street rod. having said this, I had a pile early Hemis and polyspheres years ago, I saved from the local yards when they went crush happy on 18cents/lb. iron prices years back- around the cash for clunkers time. pulled 5 Chrysler and Dodge polyspheres from one yard, and picked up a 331 Chrysler Hemi and 273 Dodge Hemi on the net, and a pair of '55 "555" heads. I got stuck for money, some old timer stopped by and offered $3000 all, so I let them go, and regretted it. a short time later, suffered Hemi withdrawal symptoms, I found and bought 2 more 331 Chryslers from another local yard, a '51 and '52, and another pair of '55 casting 555 heads. and that's it, all my local yards are tapped out now. these 2 blocks shot peened/magged good, not cracked. someday I'd like to build one, or perhaps I'll just sell them off again. at least they won't be cash for clunkered crushed. it's one of those projects I just don't get the time to do, and not getting any younger.
put a 392 crank in a 354 and get 392 inches in a lighter package. the 354 also has better port angles. if anyone tells you a 354 wont make power they are just building it wrong.
I built a 354 out of a '58 2 1/2 ton Dodge truck. Bored it to 392 std. (4.00 inches). Used KB pistons, Jerry Cantrell at Schneider Cams ground me a sweet cam, I have Hot Heads high rise intake with a Holley Avenger 670. The bottom end got clearanced and balanced . Use ARP bolts on shot peened stock rods. Bought a set of '56 passenger car heads from old Joe Reath that he mildly ported, installed narrow stem 2" hemi valves in and an Ebay shorty chromed headers feeding into a 2 1/2 exhaust system with a balance tube and 28" glass packs. A Dodge 318 distributor with an MSD box and coil provides the fire. It isn't the fastest motor in the world but. It lopes perfectly. Will lug from 3rd gear direct to as fast as you want to go, pres the loud pedal right and you are pushed back in the seat HARD. It has made many a believer of skeptical people thinking "It's just an old 354 hemi". And, I will ad that it has Ben one I of the most fun rides I've owned and I have owned 98 cars in the last 55 years. But most of all for me, it was seeing the quality of castings, forgings. And genealogy engineering that went into a big ugly bulky truck engine. I've built LSR engines , sprint car engines, hot rod motors of all ilks, drag motors, and everything from flatheads and bangers to exotic cammer and my hemi is right up near the top of the whole pile for pure fun. Would I do another one? In a heartbeat if a rich guy paid the bill. Because the only drawback (and it is a big one) is that hemis parts are made out of that rare and precious alloy, unobtainium! I could have built 2 or 3 small block Chevy for the cost but had only another cookie cutter engine like all the other guys.
Having owned and driven both the old style Hemi 392 in a 34 Plymouth pickup and a 426 Hemi in a 69 Dodge Charger. There is nothing like the look and sound of the engines. Would I spend my money on another old style Hemi ? Probably not for me, but potential is there to build a very respectable street rod motor from a 354. I would probably spend my money on a crate 426 and get the same response from the crowd when I opened the hood and be able to get parts from the local Dodge dealer or the aftermarket without worrying about which deck height or what will swap with what.
1951 Chrysler and Cadillac V8 had exactly the same bore, stroke, displacement, and compression ratio. The Cad made 160HP and the Chrysler made 180. The big difference was the head design which gave better breathing. Every purpose built racing engine since before WW1 has been a hemi head for this reason - better performance. Every good engineer knows this, and has known it since your great grandfather was a baby. That is why so many engines today are hemi head designs. Including all high performance engines. I don't believe anybody still makes a pushrod engine with the valves in a row like the typical GM V8. Will an engine design from the year 2000 beat an engine from 1951? It would be a piss poor engine that couldn't. After all there is such a thing as progress. How about comparing your beloved Chev 350 to a 350 cu in Chrysler Hemi from the 2000s? No 1955 Chev engine could top the 1955 Chrysler 300. No 1965 Chev engine could top the 1965 Chrysler 426 hemi. Year for year the hemi was always king. Only by comparing a wildly hopped up new engine, that has practically no Chev parts in it, to a 50 year old Chrysler can you make the Chev look better.
Here's the thread for the 354 in my '28 Tudor: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/28-tudor-update-5-yeah-its-got-a-hemi.575141/
Rusty O Toole I beg to differ with you. Yes the Hemi in perfect tune was a tough hombre in the 60's. Let the tune get off a little and it was just another big motor. Chrysler's own 440 6 pack cars would out run a lot of Hemi cars. The lowly 428 Cobra Jet mustang rated at 335 hp would give a Street Hemi car all it wanted in a street race. I lived with a 69 Charger 500 street Hemi as my daily driver for over a year. It had 14,000 miles on it when I bought. It had been owned by an older guy who did not drag race it ,but maintained it . It used a quart of oil every 5-600 miles. had to change the plugs about once every 2 months. Had to set the points every 2 weeks or so and adjust the valves so often that I can't remember. When it was freshly tuned it was damned fast . Let the tune get off and it was only average. My big block 69 Camaro with a ZLX 427 crate motor that I had at the same time was just as fast and not as tempermental. Loved my Charger, wished I had it today because it would have a hydraulic roller cam . Electronic ignition. My army re-enlistment bonus was wisely spent on 2 cars that I don't have anymore.
My only car for 8 years was a 56 Imperial with a 354. It was stock save for pertronix. Ran a wcfb carter and an oil bath. It even had factory air! Was it a screamer? No. The car weighed 6000 lbs. But on the highway? Gee whiz it moved. All the hopped up y blocks and early gm v8s in the club never gave me problems, and this was with my a/c keeping me chilled out. To this day, it has been the most reliable car I've ever owned and I think Chrysler was crazy to make a car that big, with those brakes, go that fast on the highway. Sent from my LGLS992 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
This is easy as 1,2,3 1 Engine power is found in the heads. 2 Crossflow cylinder heads are the best design. 3 Maximize the head designs potential in unison with other components. There you shall have a powerful engine. !!!Shame on you if you don't maximize that potential!!! oh yeah it's expensive to get a bullet proof valve train Overhead cam makes for a better valve train at the expense of a crazy timing chain. Check out a 427 cammer engine. A little 2.2 ecotec is net rated at about 150 hp, (net) add a turbo and add 110 HP ,thats 260 hp (net) now. All that from maximizing the Crossflow head design potential. It's capable of more HP by wringing it out at the expense of longevity.
About the torque in a hemi: a good friend ran an exhibition gasser (the SWC Swindler A) with a blown big block chevy, when he reretired the car he put the 392 blown hemi back in it. All else was the same, tranny, suspension tires etc. Now the car launches so hard he has to use 2nd gear to keep the wheelstand managable.
Those 354 street engines suck. They suck so bad you should send them all to me so i can dispose of them for you. Just look at that 354 street car pulling a trailer on drag week. Its obvious the haters are going to hate. The saying on drag week is run your car not your mouth. Registration for 2018 drag week is coming soon. I hope to see you there. it will give us all a chance to see which one you run. ATTACH=full]3682796[/ATTACH]
Hate to tell you this but the 426 Hemi was an out and out racing engine sold in limited numbers to make it legal in stock class racing. It did what it was supposed to do supremely well, which was beat the shit out of every Ford, Pontiac, Chevrolet etc on the track. As for a 428 Ford beating a Hemi, or even a 440 six pack on the street or anywhere else, don't make me laugh.
a poor tune up and a poor driver regardless of the engine ends up a looser. there were some hemi owners in that group like everyone else.
The "de tuned" and castrated "race hemi" was let loose in the street cars. I thought that was common knowledge ? Like the sky is blue and water is flat. The 426 street hemi was not the "super commando" hemi. Different heads, cam, intake, exhaust.
Did you cruise the streets of Detroit in the 60's ? Gratiot ave and Woodward was filled with hot cars any summer night you wanted to win or lose money. I ran a 390 Javelin,yes a Rambler with a 391 gear and a torqflite. Special ordered car with emissions delete. Nothing more than a set of headers, a good ignition curve and a set of 7 inch cheater slicks. That big bad orange Rumbler showed its tai lights to many an unsuspecting muscle car including some mighty Hemi's. That car was as light as a Nova and hooked in a mud hole. It turned mid 12's on Sunday's at Motor City. Just drive it in ,set the tires and go to the starting line. Remember I said street race ,not at prepped track. I didn't tune the other guys car,I didn't set his suspension. I just lightened his wallet. There was some sneaky fast Cobra Jets out there doing the same thing.
You and the mustangs must have missed out on running jimmy addisons 67 gtx silver bullit or tom hoovers green coronet. Both hemi powered kings of woodward.
how about these 2 ??? http://www.hotrod.com/articles/first-four-competitors-2017-amsoil-engine-masters-challenge/
Answer your own question; how many wedgies do you count in the ranks of NHRA top fuel and Funny Cars on the circuit. And who cares which engine puts out 4.734% more power in street dress. Just the look of a hemi under the hood is worth 10x the difference.
You either have one or you don't. Nobody cares why you don't. View attachment 3683512 View attachment 3683513 View attachment 3683519 First time hearing this, very funny. Being a first time real builder,.......... escaping the, lower it, put great rims on it, maybe repaint it, chrome every thing you can, polish the shit out of it..........crowd, and crusading a couple of cars like this around the shows, & cruse-ins.....I wanted something I always wanted. Got my 3 window, it had a puke of a 5.0 Ford which IMO was not what I wanted, not even close. Talking to guy at a Boeing car show, he says he has a rebuilt '55 331, Weind mani, dual quads, isky cam with B&M Torqueflite for sale and wants $2500.00 for them, (this was around 96/97). Rebuilt by a dealer mechanic and he gives me the phone number for the guy, and I drive over and meet him and verify he did the work. Next week it lives with me. That is what was in the back of my mind all along, but never considered I could accomplish that dream. I had a good friend who is really into these as I didn't know shit about them, only that they are the coolest looking engine ever and I wanted one. Of course I learned a lot about mine, and have a library of info on the shelf about them. SBC's, SBF's, Buicks, Poncho's, Caddies have their place and most look good, but nothing but nothing compares to this. Read all the input here on these and appreciate everything said, agree with it, but for me even with every thing said............. You either have one or you don't. Nobody cares why you don't and I do and I love it.
Its just a simple fact. When the flies get unzipped and the tape measure comes out the hemi is always bigger.
Didn't the engine master challenge squeeze over 600 hp out of 354? About 500 hp between 3000 and 7000 rpm too. My friend is scared shitless of his Plymouth arrow, it runs high 10s and he just got on a chassis dyno Tuesday with 315 hp to the rear wheels. They re jetted and got him off the dyno with 345 to the rear wheels. He went to the track tonight I'm anxious to see how he does.
I have a 354 in the garage still. I bought a $500 parts car to have extra Chrysler trim and stuff. The photo showed no engine, but when I got the car I asked if he had it. "Oh yeah. It goes with the car." He was going to have it rebuilt because it "made noise". He said, "They're supposed to be really good motors, I hear." It has a spun rod bearing. I have been through 6 or 7 cars since then with club members telling me to put the hemi in each of them. My answer is always " That car ain't cool enough for a hemi." Sent from my LGLS992 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
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