1965 Ford 5 lug swap questions

I bought a 1964 Ford Falcon that has been rolled to put all the 5 lug components on my 1965 Ranchero. From what I have read the rear axle should swap right over with little trouble. My question comes with the front suspension components. My questions are, are the spindles the same 64-65 for the v8? and if so should I use 1964 or 1965 v8 steering linkage on my 65 Ranchero? Are the pitman arms the same between manual steering and power steering and between 64 and 65? And lastly should I use the steering box that was for power steering or the manual box already in my Ranchero? The Falcon had powersteering but that was damaged in the rollover so I am thinking of replacing it with manual steering as is already in my Ranchero. Any and all information would be appreciated thanks.

 

No offense to the people here, but if you read this link on the I-6 to V-8 swap, these guys have been through this a gazillion times.

http://www.tffn.net/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=12&sid=d3c420998924d5d3780f99900ee67507

 

64 to 65 Spindles are different and the center link is different, as the V8 Falcon components were mostly commonized with the V8 Mustang in 65, except the center link (Falcon unibody rails are closer together / narrower). Use Mustang spindles and a reproduction 65 Falcon V8 center link (about $190 last I checked), or look at Maverick / Granada components, which have their own idiosyncracies.

 

I believe the spindles are the same.

Use the '65 steering components with the longer tie-rod lengths. The geometry was an improvement to eliminate bump-steer compared to the pre-'65 parts.

Definitely do not use the '64 power steering box if it has the 1 1/8" sector shaft & pitman arm. These boxes were unique to '63-'64 power steering cars and nothing other than '63-'64 power steering parts (Pitman arm, center links, tie rod ends) will work with them.

 

Ok that is good to know that 64 to 65 differ and that the center links between falcon and mustang are different ( I will see what more people have to say on this) . I have a maverick laying around which has the 5 lug front suspension still on it if anyone cares to provide some input on that swap. Its looking like I could put together a fairly cheap steering kit between PST and Falcon parts. If possible I would like to use the 64 spindles and drums as the bearings and drums look to be brand new.

 

I'm not sure about the Maverick parts (they're probably the same but verify), but you should look into what's called the "Granada Swap". Get a set of mid-late 1970s Granada spindles with disc brakes.

 

No offense to you, but your link doesn't lead to any information.

 

Alright I will check that out. For the sake of price and trying to get it back on the road for school I am trying to stay cheap and with what I already have. I tried signing up for the site so I will see if it leads to any valuable information.

 

Hey, Putput,

Check out the FordSix forums (Fordsix.com) for more info on your front parts swap.

Also, check out Mustang Steve's webpage, also covers early Falcon front end stuff. He has some adapters to correct the slight mis-match between your Falcon steering tie rod ends and Granada spindles, if you plan to use them. Ends have a slightly different taper angle between the newer and older parts.

Later, Kinky6

 

There are far better choices than the Granada swap. Stock spindles with a disc brake kit is the best choice. The Granada swap causes too many geometry issues. I am un-doing a Granada swap on my '63 Ranchero because of geometry issues.

 

Thank you kinky6. According to a post on fordsix the spindles are the same

"3. A 63-66 drum spindle which was adapted for disk brake use using a bracket. This is the 8 cylinder spindle and is relatively lightweight and was originally designed for 10" drum brake application. This spindle has slightly different steering arm/tie rod geometry than all future Falcon based spindles. This spindle uses a slightly larger outer tie rod mounting hole than the previous types. This was used on 64-66 Mustangs, and on 63-65 Falcons. "

Given this information I think I will need new tie rods, inner and outter, new idler arm, new pitman arm, and new drag link. other wise I believe I should be fine using the 64 spindles. If anyone is interested I will be selling the used v8 parts I am not able to use and the very new 6 cyl parts that I will be taking off my ranchero.

 

The 65 V8 Falcon spindle is different than the 63-64 V8 Falcon spindle in that the 65 tie rod end is the same taper / opening as the more common 65/up Mustang, and runs about $25 compared to $85 for the earlier, not so common, tie rod end end. Falconparts.com has a chart showing the other parts differences (most everything) and costs / availability.

 

Hmm ok I see you are right. It does look like I want to go with the 65 v8 falcon spindle.

 

I'm in the same boat as you: I bought a set of 64 Comet spindles / brakes to convert my 65 Falcon to 5 lug. After getting into the intricacies, I ended up locating a set of Disc brake spindles / rotors / calipers off a ~76 Maverick (same parts as a Granada). The progect is about 3rd in line, so I haven't turned a wrench on it yet, and now I see that a disc brake conversion using 65 V8 spindles is best.

Procrastination works against me.

Now

 

Ill keep going with the project but I wonder if it would be possible to use the original 64 spindles and power steering outter tie rods with 65 manual steering center link inner tie rods pitman arm and idler arm or some other mix of 64 and 65 parts.

 

I too am going to recommend against going with the Maverick Granada spindles. Were I in your shoes I would swap all of the V8 stuff but the power steering box over to the six cylinder car, find the proper pitman arm ( I believe they are different) and check out a company called Scarebird disc brake conversions. He offers a disc kit that swaps onto your stock V8 hubs using commonly available rotors and GM type caliper that work loads better than the stock '70s Ford stuff. Cheaper than rebuilding the stock drums too.

 

Thanks I appreciate all the information. Since all the brake components appear to be rebuilt with in the past year I hope to just run with the drums for the moment. The reason for the 5 lug swap is I have gone through 4 inlines so far with out getting a single good one so out of frustration I am dropping in a bone stock used 5.0 that I picked up a while back with a v8 c4 and putting a carb on it.

 

Here is a great pic showing the differences between the spindles. From the looks of it I may actually have a set of 65 spindles and be lucky.
63-64 Left, 65 Center, Granada Right.

 

"without getting a good one..." What has been wrong with the sixes you have been finding? I have had very good luck Getting sixes from guys that are dumping them from their Mustang projects to go to a V8. A post 65 200 is the way to fly, and I much prefer that to a V8 in these cars.

 

so far water bolt into cylinder wall that destroyed first motor second was a 170 that was tired and most recently a 250 from a maverick that I picked up and got installed and running for a day but then pulled to find cracked rings, spun rod bearing, and cracked block. I have put too much time and money into these sixs and I have yet to have one stay running on me for over a few months. I enjoy their nature and sound but given the fact I depend on my cars for daily driving the 5.0 and the rolled 64 falcon complete with motor mounts, spindles, rear axle, throttle linkage, and complete exhaust for makes the v8 swap much more practical for me at this point and time.

 

If you want to run drums, I have a set of 5 lug drums/spindles/brakes from a '63 Falcon V8. PM me if interested.

 

Really? I thought it should link you in as a guest but maybe not. The link works for me but I'm a registered member. There should be a sticky at the top of the page entitled I6 to V8 swap with 6 pages of all the info you need to perform this swap.

 

One, and done: http://www.falconparts.com/ford-falcon-auto-parts/pc/V6-to-V8-Steering-Conversion-d19.htm

 

Thank you for the offer of the drums and the information but I already have a set of drums and hubs that came with the falcon.

 

I believe the V8 5 lug Falcon even though it is a 64 will provide the parts I need. Here is a picture of the vehicle that I plan to remove the rear axle and front spindles from to transplant on the ranchero.

 

That should do the trick.

 

Ok cool. The one thing I have left is the manual steering linkage which comes out to around $450 give or take for everything. The car is giving me axle, spindles, new dual exhaust, v8 motor mounts and v8 throttle linkage so I believe that more or less covers what more I need for the swap.

 

So here is a 1964 falcon v8 spindle (right) next to a 1965 falcon spindle (left). They appear identical though the visible difference is the 1964 spindle has a sizably larger tie rod hole. There may be a difference is bearing sizes I don't know yet but I will find out tomorrow.

 

I know this is an older post but I really appreciated the pics of the spindles side by side they really helped me see the latest discovery of what fits and what doesn't. I've been messing around with these swaps for years and the old info just doesn't hold water anymore......my latest project I started out a) not wanting to order parts online(due to shipping/ handling/duty costs b) not having any available V8 parts cars but I did manage to locate a '76 maverick the entire steering system will bolt into the falcon with only minor mods to the frame rail where the box bolts up and a little clearancing of the steering box case. Very clever huh? now I had p/s and gotten rid of the old "death spear" column as well.....so what if the tires were splayed out a little? I figured cutting a bit off of the tie rod ends would fix it and it probably would have but......thats when I learned about: The Ackerman principle and steering geometry. I had previously done a '65 six to V8 conversion using a '64 comet steering rack and granada tie rods/spindles and had learned about the 1 1/8" sector box the hard way, again thinking I was very clever....until she changed lanes on me suddenly at 90 mph now years later I was putting 2 and 2 together. So back to the drawing board....literally aside from heating and bending my steering arms and hoping for the best. Man I did not want to give up on those discs! It is a great swap on '67 & up cars ONLY! I managed to find a '65 p/s steering linkage which has a 16:1 ratio versus the manuals 19:1 now I am trying to locate spindles which I thought would be easy until some guy said the tie rod ends differ..... so just to review: to use the '65 steering in a '60-'63.5 you must also use the '64-5 column (the early shaft is 1" longer)'60-'62 must use later upper control arms, '63-4V8 boxes have 1 1/8" sector all sixes and '65 V8 use a 1" sector, the improved center link is a one year only item '65 falcon/comet V8 only , the spindles must be 64.5-66 mustnag or '65 falcon/comet V8 only (unless manual) and then only 63-4 falc/com V8NOT anything '67 or later (gran/monarch/must/mav/com)......sorry wrong geometry :-( http://www.cometeastcarclub.org/PDFs/SteeringUpgrade.pdf
Putput you probably don't need the '65 spindles in your case since you are going manual steer. for p/s guys this is a different story the '65 falcon/mustang left outer tie rod is a strange peice bent back on a 45 degree angle in the days before people knew about ackerman you would have to have a sleeve made to use the later spindles or buy a custom made tie rod with a larger ball stud but with manual steer since you already have the correct ackerman you should be able to use mav/gran tie rods or maybe the '64s (they may be too short) also if you decide to use your '64 p/s linkage you can get rid of the death spear by using a '68 must/falc (1 1/8th)p/s box and a maverick (or 67 linc/t bird tilt) column
FYI the maverick rear end is the only other factory rear axle that will bolt into the early '60-63.5 cars it is 1/2 wider than stock, the falcon e brake cable can be used by shortening the springs to the mav length, falcon spring plates are too small I welded the falc shock mount to the mav springplates but mustang plates will bolt on, The maverick 4 door driveshaft fits perfectly if using a c-4 or top loader

 

p.s. what was the verdict on the bearings? A2 & A6?