Projects Rant : save your money

They are getting it from us....China is the biggest buyer of US steel right now, And have been for well over 10 years. they take it and mix it with God only knows what, then they sell it back to us through walmart and places that have them make cheap crap and import it. However alot of this stuff is not chinas fault, As they can produce a good quality product. The ones who are having this stuff reproduced are to blame, because they are trading quality for quantity..

 

I've always maintained that China makes products to their customers specs.

 

I cant help but think that the consumer is also somewhat to blame for this. I know I always am looking to save money and buy a part where it is the cheapest. With the influx of people into this hobby (including myself) and the fact that people want things now, its hard for an oldschool quality parts maker to compete. Good parts arent cheap, but thats what people want, and it results in lower quality parts being made to satisfy the demand. As long as people keep buying them(cheap parts), regardless of how many of us are pissed off, they are going to keep making them.

I honestly think this same trend is repeating itself in all areas of life these days, and is part of the downward spiral we are in....

 

Why?
89% of the US consumers want cheap over quality

 

i used 'em once...........once. this is gonna turn into the same old argument.......and cowtown defends the chinese yet again.

 

I don't see his post as a defense of Chinese parts as much as a statement about the American system of "Customers buy price, not quality".

If no one buys the junk parts, they'll quit trying to sell them.

 

I'm usually more supprized when things go right!

 

I Feel your pain! Been playing with cars, for 50 years now and a little "adjustments" have been part of the game from day one, IMO. 40+ years ago, bought name brand mating parts assemblies from suppliers that did not fit. Everyone, I've known in the "Hobby" has a machinist connection for solving these problems, I have helped many guys out thru the years and received many favors in return and a few $$$. There is a reason all the pro builders have a Lathe, Mill, Drill Press with some skills to go with. And again IMO. the China Crap is not any better, some worse, but with ALL the "stuff" we can buy reasonably today, I think it helps our Hobby for the positive. John

 

Hey, a buddy installed a MII crossmember in his hot rod. He had researched the vendor and spoken to them at lenght. He had the frame assembled to a rolling chassis. He then noticed that the car would turn really sharp to the right and just a little to the left.
Turns out that the rack and pinion mounting points were "centered" on the crossmember.
The MII rack and pinion is suppose to be offset a little. I believe he had to cut out the crossmember and install a new one.

 

Very true. When I was with the bike co. We had boots on the ground over there overseeing production. They will make a part as nice as you are willing to pay for.

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Good Rant! I generally just stand in the garage and yell obscenities and sometimes I remember a phrase that was used 30 years ago " Bolt On ". I know you'll fix the problem and I hope the rest of the day goes better.

 

I have a client that unfortunately is tied to a chinese manufacture and I have to work with them through the internet. My experience's have not been good because we try to create the best product we can. The customer has their people over there and still can't make those treads do it the right way. Very frustrating and that is why if it's made in china buyer beware. I'd rather spend the time and money on old parts. I guess that is why it took me damn near five years to find the pieces I wanted on my car. Just my 2 cents.

 

Itt's a damn shame! I can't tell you how many parts I've had to tweek over the years. And the warrantys voided by making them fit.

 

This is where I am at now. I have built, worked on, and owned over 20 old cars and it seems like crap parts are the norm anymore, no matter what you pay for them. Currently I am working on a '64 chevy C10 and you would think it would be pretty straight forward for the number of them that were made and the relatively long existence of the design that was carried on for years, but I have gotten more crap parts that don't fit like they should working on this project than I have any of my other odd-ball ones. I return about 50% of the parts that come in. Lately, it has been door lock tumblers that aren't to spec, switches sold as aftermarket replacements that don't work with original harnesses, harnesses that don't work with original switches, ABS replacing steel components with no mention of it in the ad, claims of compatibility with certain parts that just hands down aren't compatible, amongst many other issues.

The best instance I have recently was that I bought a P*L transmission cross-member for '64-'66 chevy truck. Says that it can be used with 700R4 right in the ad. Well it can not. Because it is designed to be located in the exact spot that the parking brake cross member goes. I don't care how good at fab or modification you are, two objects can not occupy the exact same space, no matter the circumstances. I called and asked and was told that it works fine on theirs. Ok, so how do I know theirs is right and used the stock parts? Am I to believe that they actually have a '64-'66 truck right there on the spot that they can look at and tell me I'm wrong? I asked for instructions, a diagram, a picture, anything. They told me they didn't have anything like that. So back to square one. I'm left trying to find a different trans tailshaft housing to be able to move the X-member back further and some other poor fella is going to run into the same issues when he orders it.

Unfortunately, I think that is what is to be expected anymore these days. Way back you could walk down the block to the fella that you paid to do the work and work it out in person. Tough to do that when separated by a big ass ocean and a different language. Also tough when most industry has shrunk so small that even if you do buy "made in the USA" the place is somewhere on the other side of the country and you get a response like, "sorry can't do anything for you, I haven't heard of anybody else having any issues" (I have been hearing this a lot lately). Just the way it is and what we deal with for the hobby anymore.

I know it's frustrating. But I guess that is what we get when we sacrifice ingenuity and time for convenience.

I can offer no other advice than what everybody else knows..... give your business to somebody with a good reputation. The best work spreads by word of mouth. If you want something done right, do it yourself, etc, etc, etc.......

In the words of Ray Wylie Hubbard, "The days that I keep my gratitude greater than my expectations, I have really good days".

Hope it all works out. Take a breath, count to three, drink a beer, whatever it takes. It's just a setback.

 

Sadly these days it's all about how much you can ship and how much you can squeeze out of production. It's rampant in all industries. Huge focus on "making the numbers" and less on producing a quality part. It's all about profits and "The Bottom Line".

Hah, I've been leery of the "bolt on" phrase since I started messing with cars. I think my first major disappointment was when I saved up to buy a set of March Performance brackets for my power steering pump when I installed headers on my O/T car. The instructions sucked and nothing fit. I called the tech line and was basically told to pound sand. So there I am, 19 years old and out $120.

 

Hell it isn't China ill take there parts any day of the week , next time it doesn't fit look where its made I've had some from Mexico, Austria, Indonesia, and many other place I cant pronounce if it says China I get excited because I know I got a 80% chance it will work ,
Next time I call tech support for my computer and get one of the people over seas ill ask them if they have a certain part for my car hell they probably make them there that's why your on hold for so long

 

This is getting political and folks are blaming the Chinese.
When a deal goes down with china manufacturer, the factory is happy, the workers are happy (even if they make 1.00 a day) and the customer of that deal is happy. Pay attention to this M-Fer. Anyone could be this guy even you.

That particular individual speced a part and shopped for bids.
Did he take the lowest bid ?
Did he compromise the quality for a better price point or for more profits.
Or did he hold onto his integrity and receive quality parts to distribute?

It's this middle man who is to blame. If he's a greedy SOB and just cares about his bank account then he couldn't give a fuck less if the end user is happy. The guy could be a stand up dude and is happy with 30% profits and distributing good parts at reasonable price with proportionate manufacturing costs. It's the guy who isn't happy with 300% profits and knows the market won't bear a price increase so he sets out to have made cheaper.

There can't be many of these guys when compared to the population, but they are polluting the whole damn place and getting rich doing it.

 

I know this won't make all your problems go away, but maybe I can help. I used the same mounts, and I loved them. I did not have the quality problems you're having, and I definitely feel for you. There's a SoCal shop on my way to school, and I've bought a lot of stuff from them for my project. I've been very happy with their quality and service. At least from what I've seen, their parts are much better quality than Speedway's stuff, but you pay for it. Anyway, to the point. The brackets you bought "do not need a gusset", but this SoCal sells the forged gussets to go along with the spring hangers. I could pick up a pair if you were interested; maybe that would save you some time. I don't have the best photos on hand, but here's what I ended up with. Everything was the proper dimension and fit as it should, and I did use the gussets (although I was told "they're not necessary" lol). I'm glad I did now. Let me know if you'd be interested in a pair, or if you're over it at this point.

 

That is why I build my own shit. Can't trust store bought crap! I usually water jet my parts out and machine the bushings to spec so I know everything fits! (most of the time!)

 

This statement is 100% true.....And this is what I meant by saying that china can produce a good product.
For example,
Greg Weld tried to make his wheels here in the US, But because of his competitors going overseas There was No way, So he himself Flew over there and worked with them on the production of all the wheels with his name on them. Brought back samples to be checked by 3 Top machine shops in our country. All said the machine work was top notch. Most of the standard wheels he had made over there, completely machined, polished, and in a box shipped to his warehouse. Cost around $30.00 each. Now here in the US he could not even get the polishing done for that. Bottomline is china is not the ones selling it to you, It is the middle man who is paying more attn, to his profit margin, Than the quality of his product.......

 

I think I will quote what you said to me a month or two back. Same applies

 

Geez man,
I thought the last time I spoke with your mommy on the phone. She said she was not going to let you come upstairs and get on her computer anymore....Grow up "Peter pan!!"

 

At last someone that gets whats happenning !!!

 

Do you Have a picture of your sister ?

Everyone has a point where all hell breaks loose I guess.

 

Another Example,
And I hate to admit it, But I started out Selling all the cheap stuff out there, And was doing very well on my profits. But after hearing a few complaints, And refunding a few of my customers for Crap I would not use on my own builds, I decided I did not want to be known as the guy who sold junk parts. As Hot rods is my true passion and I did not want it tanted. So I decided If It is not good enough for me, Then it is not good enough for any of my customers. Now I do not sell as many parts because I refuse to sell the crap that other vendors do. I still get customers call me and want to buy some of the cheap crap out there, And I just do my best to try and get them to Buy better stuff. However alot of them say they will think it over (or ask their wife) and never call back. So that tells me they are buying the poorly made cheap shit anyway. In fairness Some of the stuff is ok, But for the most part You get what you pay for.

 

I know how you feel. Recently, I've felt like I've been living in a chapter of Atlas Shrugged...
r

 

It is sad but true -- I would say 9 out of 10 "parts" I buy need some type of rework. It doesnt even bother me anymore.

I guess if it got to me that much I would sell my crap and go buy a new car.

 

Some guys really don't know the difference.
& What you don't know can't hurt you right ?

 

Yep, just quantify "some type" and where exactly is "the enough is enough" point. How much time of "some type" do you put into a 40.00 part before you say fuck this, I should have "saved my money " and just made the damn thing. I'm sure it's a different amount of time for a 100.00 part or a 1500.00 part but at some point there will come the "save your money" moment where you realize it's better to make your own stuff.

 

No your not, make it yourself. it cost me less to make it then it does to buy crap and try to make it work. Then Im mad because its still shitty after trying to get it up to my standard and I cant return it because I ground,drilled, and bent it trying to make it work.

Thanks for the tip, I glad I bought a rusty original at the swap meet for a dollar. nothing is better built than original. It would be nice if they could get close though.

I hate ordering stuff out of catalogs because I always think its gonna be something Im actually going to want to use on my car.