My shop is working on a customers 48 Frazer Manhattan. I have a problem with a rear brake drum that is cracked about 1/2 way across the brake lining face. I have not been able to find a replacement drum, NOS, used or new aftermarket. My question is can a brake drum be welded and then re machined? Or would that just make it more likely to break apart under use? I have never heard of someone welding a brake drum, but there has to be a solution to this problem. Any of you guys got any ideas? Bill
Usually because replacements are too cheap to bother. Railroad wheels, axles, bearing cages, are welded daily because replacements are freaking expensive.
That drum has to cross reference to something else. The Independent's didn't have enough capitol to tool up, or even design parts like brakes that were made by outside suppliers such as Bendix or perhaps Dana or Kelsey. They likely used generic designs provided by the contract supplier base.
Have you looked here? HRP http://www.kaiserwillys.com/category/willys-jeep-brakes-drums-parts-accessories
The brake drum is 11x2 and has a hub rivited into it for a Dana rear end with tapered axles. I have been told there was both Kelsey hubs and Motor Wheel hubs, and no one I have talked to can tell me what the difference is and if they are interchangeable. This drum also uses 1/2x20 wheel bolts instead of studs. The brake backing plates and components were made by Bendix. Wagner was also a brake supplier. Bendix probably made the drum but maybe Frazer rivited the hub into it? Not sure So far I have not found a cross reference as to what else this drum might have been on. Bill
i have found on some other brands [disclaimer; i am not saying this will work on the frazier] that they don't list rear drums, but they list front, thicker,finned different,front drums that will work on the rears. see if fronts are available and try them.
Warping look out for it. When I bought a model A one rear drum had a stud welded in. I ended up buying a second rear axle to get a useable drum and a couple of well needed brakes parts was nice too. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Actually, my Hollander's Interchange doesn't list any other brake drum as a substitute for the Kaiser/Frazer drums. I was surprised at that.
I see a big lawsuit if anything ever goes wrong with the brakes.Just my 2 cents.Lawyers will have a field day whether it had anything to do with that or not.
I'd be looking for any 11 x 2 drum. Then I'd be taking the rivets out and re-machining the new drum to put it onto the old hub. Finn is right, independents did not the money to have bespoke parts made up for them. They did have the capability to machine blank drums to their spec. You need to find a suitable drum for re-machining. As to lawyers, well, anybody can sue for anything. You having turned a wrench on this car have opened yourself up to a lawsuit, might as well put both boots on. Cosmo
Welding a brake drum sounds like a shakey proposition. It's not likely any reputable shop would even turn it after welding. Most brake shops have legal & liability issues about turning drums past an oversize/undersize(?). Remember most manufacturers used the same sources for drive train & brake components (Dana, Bendix, etc.). I suspect that Kaiser rearend may use a similar Chrysler tapered hub axle. They were the worst to get off -heating, beating, etc. Early MOPAR double cylinder brakes sucked -hardest to adjust, etc. Good luck with that - just stand clear at first stop sign!
Will any Kaiser work from any year? I dont think kaiser spent much time on there drivetrains as much as the cosmetics..
We riveted new drums to hubs then turned the drum to make sure the surface was centered on the hub. No big deal. Look at the link HotRod left and call them with questions.
To answer some of your questions, yes I have checked with all the Kaiser Frazer part suppliers, K-F Club, E-Pay, speciality suppliers I use in business etc. I did locate one drum in Nebraska thats from a 49 Frazer. That drum has different casting numbers on the hub than mine and has 1/2x20 wheel studs instead of using wheel bolts. Maybe the only difference is the studs to bolts. I may get that drum and match it up. He will take it back if it wont work, I would just have to pay to ship it back. I just do not like buying stuff with the hopes it will work. I did not even know the drum was cracked until I media blasted it. Its probably been cracked for 40 years or more for all I know. Worst case is I will cut the drum and reinstall it if a replacement isnt found. I have been in business for a long time and I am not worried about the liability issues of the drum if reused. The owner of the vehicle is fully aware of the issue and would have to authorize the re-use of the drum and sign a disclaimer in the event of a brake drum failure. We cant junk the car for a brake drum. Bill
Just finding any 11x2 drum and riviting the original hub in it as stated by Cosmo just isnt that easy. The drum would have to have the same offset, bolt pattern etc, which would be just as difficult to find as an original. Even the front drums on the Frazer are a different offset than the rear and use the same brake shoes. So using a front drum and swaping out the hubs and re-riviting is out. From what I have learned, the drums also seem to be a one year only (1948) part only used on the Frazer Manhattan. They say the Kaiser brakes of the same year were different. Bill
Check out the 1956 Plymouth rear Drums... those are 11x2 that fit on a tapered axle, and have bolts instead of studs. the hub inside dia size might even be the same.
don't know if this will help, but i recently converted an ot vehicle to larger axles with a different bolt pattern, the original drums were toast and no longer available [coincidentally 10x2] but i was able to get the drums 10x 2 1/2 that bolt pattern matched the axles so i turned the out side edge down on the lathe.
Try Master Power Brakes, 888-251-2353, www.mpbrakes.com, They have helped me in the past with unusual drums. As to welding cast iron brake drums I don't think you would be too successful. Cast iron, rust, brake drum dust, too much contamination. Even under the best conditions I would not trust it.
Try the specs on a Dodge/Plymouth/Fargo 1/2 P/U. Tapered axle, used bolts rather than studs, and have a riveted hub. I'm no expert but you may as well try.
As a last resort you could have a machine shop turn the OD of the existing drum just enough to clean up and make it cylindrical, and then turn a shrink fit steel sleeve to shrink on the OD of the drum to reinforce it. I'd say you'd be looking at $300 to $400 to have this done. Not cheap, but would work if nothing else is available. I did a repair like this on a piece of equipment we own. Casting shaped similar to a brake drum but subject to pretty high hydraulic pressure on its ID. Small crack would open up under pressure and keep the pressure from being able to build up so the piece could work as it was supposed to. Turned it and shrunk a ring on the OD to (hopefully) keep the crack from opening up under pressure. Did that repair about 10 yrs ago and it still works fine. New part was available, but cost $7000.
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