Features Rolls bars/cages for street cars

I've been going through past discussions of this and have questions...

Anyone got loops installed strictly for daily safety? I gotta admit the woman in the cell phone in the giant SuV scares the Bejebus out of me some days.

On bumping your head against the bars... Now y'all have me scared of my steel B pillars, my steel doors, my steel dash!!!!

Unibody cars.... Could properly installed safety bars take the place of subframe connectors or would the idea be to make it all work together?

Back seat is going to become little more than a storage shelf hunh?

I guess at that point bucket seats are a must?

Again my interest isn't because class rules say I need anything, no road racing or drag racing going on here. My interest would just be a spot more day to day piece of mind.

 

Might be a good idea, if you also are comfortable wearing a helmet whenever you drive...???

 

you'll only bang your head once and regret having done it forever, personally wouldn't do it again. was a mistake that doesn't need repeating.

 

Some points to consider,

If you get into a situation requireing your insurance, your car WILL be labled a race car which WILL get you cancled or at least HIGH RISK
A bar or cage may hamper normal fire dept/rescue opperations
Cages and bars ARE only effective when all other safety equiptment is in use.
The reason I will not install a bar or cage in a street car is that even with it people will die or get hurt, But I will still get blamed even with the cage doing its job.

The real reason there are seat belts in cars---Ambulance drivers are too lazy to look for the bodies

 

Another counter point is that some commercial insurance companies view a car with a rollbar as a race car and will refuse to insure it. False logic perhaps, but they will make the decision, not you.

dreracecar types faster than I do...

 

I've built many for my cars with no problems. I try to fit them tight to the outside and giving a reasonable clearance from my head. I figure if I get involved in an accident that throws my head far enough to hit the bar, I would probably be glad I installed it. It may be a crap shoot, but I will continue to use them on mine. I am going to try to incorporate a cage into the stucture of my '34 chevy coupe. Kind of unseen under the upholstery.

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Why does it need to be any closer to my head than my B-pillar? As is my b pillar is right next to my head, I'm 6'3" so the seat stays all the way back.

What about padding?

I hadn't even thought about insurance whining about it.

 

Something of interest from the old days. I built a roll bar for a car that I drove to school and work when I was in high school. It looked cool and was functional. I figured that it would lower my insurance because it made the car safer (dumb kid logic), it raised my insurance. my insurance man said if I wasn't planning on rolling the car why did I need a roll bar.

I guess that dove tails with it being a race car.

If I was afraid of bumping my head or afraid of the lady with her cell phone (or the man either for that matter) I would just stay home.

 

I've built many for my cars with no problems. I try to fit them tight to the outside and giving a reasonable clearance from my head. I figure if I get involved in an accident that throws my head far enough to hit the bar, I would probably be glad I installed it. It may be a crap shoot, but I will continue to use them on mine. I am going to try to incorporate a cage into the stucture of my '34 chevy coupe. Kind of unseen under the upholstery.

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Back in 76 I had a roll bar in my Vega, got into a little fender-bender (my fault) and after my car was fixed-- I was canceled because of it, cant imagine what would happen today.

Padding the bar only keeps your helmet from getting scratched

 

Exactly..padding.
I did a full roll cage in my car mostly because of the front end (and rear) being clipped on and actually being stronger thAn the original frame...

The car is inteneded to go drag racing (if Irwindale stays long enough..!).
And even though the car's been sitting a while (other projects), I've kept up the licence and insurance, just so I don't have to go thru all the initial hassle. Now a crash of some kind may change that....I think the key word is "may".

Hamper because of a fire, yea, maybe, this car is a Studebaker, 2dr wagon, so from the factory, they had no structural strength...!
AND...the "knee buster" bar (dash bar) that's required per the NHRA for a modified firewall/floor, mine's on the edge whether it's legal or not. I figured I'd rather hassle with the NHRA rather than bust up my knees in a minor crash. It's way under the dash rather than exactly where it's supposed to be. The NHRA tech. said, depending on who the tech is that inspects it.......

So yea, I have a car that's caged, bumper to bumper.

Mike

 

I have a 64 Chevy II with a 4 point bar. It was installed by a previous owner. I can't say that the car is any more or less safe with the bar. It makes it a little more difficult getting stuff in and out of where the back seat used to be. As far as insurance goes, it was never an issue. They inspected the car, nitrous and all. It has full coverage - a classic car type policy.

 

I've put cages in many of my street-driven cars. Here's a shot of one in my truck during fabrication. The A-pillar bars haven't been shaped yet in this shot. I do my best to keep the cage tight to the inside surfaces of the cabin to gain maximum clearance, and I foam-pad the cage in appropriate places. No issues. Never had an issue with insurance either. A cage doesnt magically turn a street car into a race car. It doesn't make it faster, but it makes it safer.

 

Many states, CA included it is illegal to wear a helmet in a car!

There is some arguement about that. Quite a few Sports cars come with them stock, so there is a very good argument that it is a selective policy that could be fought in court

You might be surprised how far your neck will stretch in an accident. A guy who drove one of my rally cars, went off the side at Pikes Peak and landed the car on it's nose. he had a gig gash in his bicep that we couldn't figure out. We then found the skin on his helmet visor ans straped him back in the car. With the 5 way harness tight, kike it was a the time of the accident, the closest he could come to his bicep was about 5' away. Yet the visor dug into his arm by an inch!

Not sure how you think you can get it any further away than the B Pillar. It has to be inside the car and there is a dimension about how far away from your head that is part of the rules - you can't put it 8" behind you .....

I disagree - good padding helps absorb the impact. And having smacked my helmet against padded roll bars many times in Off Road race Trucks, I can tell you it makes a HUGE difference.

 

VoodooTwin: I'm curious about your theory behind the S-shaped tube across the door. A straight pipe is quite stiff and for example pushing the centre in towards the seat would require the front and rear tube to be pulled toward each other. A S-shaped one has little stability left and the centre could easily be pushed in while the S straightens out w/o the front and rear tube trying to resist it.

 

I made one up for my A bone. 1.75 .188 wall.

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Hotrodden,

Hitting your bare noggin on a padded bar hard enough will kill you just the same and that was my point.

Seconed, is that yes some factory built sports cars come with factory bars designed and tested by the factory who also have a big legal team and defence fund. Most of us small shops do not have that option and would prefer not lose everthing I own.
Thats why I only work on racecars where there is control and rules.

 

When I rebuilt my (OT) chopped pro-street S-10 a while ago I installed a modified S-W rollcage.I never thought about it at the time but I never felt comfortable driving it with my head surrounded with steel tubing.even a minor fender bender could be disasterous. Yes you can argue with the insurance company,but they are writing the check,so I really don't think you are going to win that argument.

 

If its not for racing you could use smaller tubing and install it inside the piller and above headliner if it makes you fill safer.

 

Jegs sells roll bar kits for many cars....

 

We all have to go sometime, and if I have my choice it will be behind the wheel of a roadster with no roll bar. If I wanted something wrapped around my head I would build a coupe, but we roadster guys are a different breed.

Don

 

I hear you Don. I am sure my demise will be so rusted up shit box torass falling of the rack on me.

 

I was required to have seat belts in my T-bucket for state inspection,but I certainly don't want to be belted in a roadster with no roll bar.I have no plans to install one .

 

I will be putting a single hoop with braces "Roll bar" behind the body of my T roadster. I like the look if done right...BUT my biggest reason for doing it isn't for rollover safety.
I consider it more to prevent getting driven over by a higher vehicle in a minor rearend collision.
Yes, there comes a point where it won't help in that type accident, but at least it gives you a chance, rather than simply having your face smashed into the steering wheel by a soccermom's SUV!

 

Funny that you say for your bare head, but your original comment was it was to keep from scratching your helmet wasn't real clear what you meant

Although I agree that BMW isn't likely to get sued over their roll bars, it is also why I carry $10m liability insurance in my shop. Years ago a friend had done a cage, completely to the organizing body specs, and it was damaged in a spectacularly violent roll over during a race. The driver didn't make it. The family sued, and even though he proved he built it to the organizers specs, the Jury felt sorry for the family and he lost everything, had he had insurance, he may have been OK.

 

I could have gone with "Roll cage padding is worthless without a helmet"

 

Then I would have understood

 

Mostly for looks...

 

Same bar different seats now

 

My point there was that I already have a chunk of steel within a tilt of my neck from my skull.


Again, my interest in looking into this is personal safety, not any groups rules.