Hiya, This Nash I have just bought is running on a 6v system and apparently everything is working fine. Subject to the battery condition when I get it, do you guys always keep it 6v or convert it all to 12v or mix the 2 with a dash converter? I will be fitting airbags on it next year sometime so will need 12v then but for now I dont have any reasons for it to be 12v right now. Your thoughts? Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
I'd leave it six volt. You could grab another six volt battery (identical would be best) and wire it in series of the other. Then run a 12 volt alternator or generator charging to the (now) 12 volt terminal. Then you'll have a 12 volt and a 6 volt terminal. 6 for everything else 12 is for air.
6v is ok, just make sure all your connections etc. are good tight and clean, I ran the roadster for a couple of years with no problems, I did buy a 6v batt conditioner, works a treat http://www.ctekchargers.co.uk/?gclid=CM7p57HCi7kCFVDItAoddxsAmw K
A small note: A lot of Chrysler and Ford, along with most of the independents use 6 volt positive ground. So if you use a second battery, the whole system would now be 12 volt positive ground. I would think your air would not like this. Now you could go 12 volt negative ground and just worry about polarity sensitive items, such as gauges, possibly radio, etc. They would now be 6 volt neg ground.
I agree a 6 volt system in good condition with cables and connections that don;t have excessive voltage drop should start and run fine. Recently I found In the 1955 SAE papers for the "new Chevrolet V8" and "Pontiac V8" both say they chose to convert to 12 Volts in part because it was required to have some ignition reserve capacity at high rpms, and include charts to show it.
6 volt chart (Chevy) shows that 6 volts will still maintain a high enough spark for plugs gapped at .035. So what is the big deal? Most of the cars went to 12 volts for the accessories, such as A/C.
You can also opt with this setup... http://antiqueautobattery.com/accessories.html Look at the 12/6 battery. Replace the generator with a 12V and use the 12V post for starter and modern radio and use the 6V post for everything else. Don't know why more people don't do it this way. Most gauges will work with positive or negative ground, switch the wires around on the ammeter and coil, polarize the generator and you are good to go.
My approach: 6v is weird. It hasn't been used in production vehicles for close to 60 years. It's obvious that you could care less about originality. Go 12v. Negative ground. Unweird. Bulbs just change to 12v. Starter works fine. GM integral regulator alternator. "Brown" wire needs an idiot light to work correctly. Things like gauges, electric wipers, blower motor take on a case by case basis. Electric gauges can be converted with a solid state add-on device sold on EBay sometimes called a Runtz. Updating electric wiper motor to 12v equivalent, same with blower motor. Old cloth-covered wiring then becomes the real issue. Hard to trust it. But you wanted an old car, right?
One reason for the swap to 12 volts is that cuts current in half. Which allows you to cut wire size in half too. Smaller wire = cheaper wire, the bean counters liked that.... The big difference is voltage drops. Voltage lost through bad connections, wire resistance, etc is dependent on circuit current, not voltage. A poor six-volt connection that drops 1 volt through it means you've lost 16.6% in a six volt system, but swapping to twelve volts will drop that down to 4.1%. If everything is working right, six volt is fine.
I have done loads of 12v conversions on british cars going from positive earth to negative earth but the 53 buick was already running 12v when I got it so didn't need to change much. Just wondering what the majority of you guys do. I will convert the nash to 12v long term but for now I want to just use it and have a reliable motor until I am ready to start to play with it. Cheers for the input though guys. Sent from my GT-I9300 using H.A.M.B. mobile app
6v, I like the originalness. The only issue I have with it is hot restarting, but it never doesn't start up, just takes a minute.
I like the idea of the dual output battery, awsum but alas, not easy to find in the uk. Originality, dont really care for that, after all, 99% of us here are moddin and roddin eh? 6V dropper off a 12V battery is a good idea, run everything off that but finding one that I trust isnt easy at the right price.. However, I have thought, convert the car to 12V, alternator and battery but keep the 6V battery and dynamo too? or is this getting too complex? I would have to get an idler pully mounted somewhere to drive the alternator off the same belt (albeit a longer one). I will wait until the car is home (2 weeks) and have a play. Whatever I do, I will post up here anyway. Cheers.
Hi all, just a thought. Seeing the dynamo on the Nash has a direct drive to the waterpump I have been wondering if I could still use the existing dynamo to generate 12v? Anyone know the open load voltage of one of these dynamos? Could it be a case of junking the 6v regulater box and fitting a 12v one? I have not started the engine yet so cannot test it yet but just thought I would theow it out there. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
In the past I have changed 6v cars to 12v but I wouldn't today. Not worth the trouble and expense. I would keep the Nash 6 volt, and repair and adjust the original starter, generator etc as necessary. A good auto electric shop could convert your 6v generator to 12v by changing the field coils and regulator. IF there was an auto electric shop in the UK that had the correct parts, and knew what they were doing. This would get you noplace because you would then have to convert the rest of the car to 12v and we have been over that already. Plus the generator would have a very small output, Please, do yourself a favor and leave the car 6v. If you want a 12v car with air bags do yourself a BIG favor and sell the Nash. Use the money to buy something newer.
Hi Willys, Both Chevy and Pontiac chose to go to 12 volts when they introduced the V8s and provided those charts as the reason why. Maybe it was the engine guys that wrote the papers, so they were only worried about that perspective. The info is directly from SAE papers the manufacturers submitted to their buddies in the Society of Automotive Engineers. In those days, unlike today, SAE papers often included descriptions about the problems they had developing the engines ( or whatever the paper was about) AND a bunch of their peers would comment about the paper, and that was published at the end too. Nowadays SAE papers are more of list of "we did this and it worked fine, then we did that and it worked great" with very little description of how or why. Much more like a new car ad. As I read it, the left hand (Chevy) chart shows the 6 volt system has a little (very little) margin at 65 mph with brand new plugs at 0.035". I think powerful (enough) ignition really can make a difference running and especially starting. My best example of that is my fairly modern lawnmowers and snowblowers, which start and run great despite near total abuse by me, yet have pretty much the same simple carbs as in the 60s. regards, Dan T
I ran my 34 with a flathead on 6v for a few years until I made an overnight drive and ran out of voltage. The 3rd brush on the generator was maxed out but would not keep up with the draw of lights. I completed the drive after disconnecting the pass side headlight at about 2:00 am, after a nap I had to push start the car. By morning the battery was up enough to start the engine again. I would not run 6v on a heavily used driver.
neb rivit the car is in England, the owner is getting set to change it to 12 volt so he can install air bags, don't worry it won't be moving for a long time if ever.
Just starting making a new loom soon so deciding on the voltage is key as to the wire guage. It wont be going on many long journeys as in the uk, the show scene isn't as plentiful as in the usa but I do want it reliable as I will be taking my kids to the shows. It wont be a daily driver as I drive for work and have a company car. I may be giving the airbags a miss however so the need for 12v is diminishing. Getting it on the road is the main focus now so I will design the loom for 6v for now as it can then be converted to 12v later with just a change to the fuses if I need too. Sent from my GT-I9300 using H.A.M.B. mobile app
in the early 80s, I had a 55 Merc Monterey "woodie" wagon I built that, when I got tired of the hot, slow startin issues, I switched to 12 volt w an alternator -- starting issues cured - gauges still worked, put a coil voltage drop resistor on, ran beautifully. 6 volt starter really spun that engine till it finally failed -- [ coupla years ] after that put on a 12 volt but man, let me tellya bout them power windahs they coulda been guillotines! hadta make shure the kids knew NOT to have their heads out the windahs -- OR their arms,hands, fingers, feet -- otherwise they'd LOSE em when them windahs went up w a rush!
I'm running 6V system on my '50 Chevy. like the man said "clean connections", that and get educated on how to boost it if ever you find yourself with a dead battery so you don't fry your lamps or gas gauge.
Can't say I'm worried. I am agreeing with changing to 12v. Many people read posts to guide their projects, anyway, no overnight drives in England?
Dobt forget England aint that big and I live fairly central. the furthest east is 150 miles, west is 200 miles, south is 130 miles and north is 800 miles but there aint much going on further than 200 miles that way so no need for a mega electrical system. Dont care for a sound system so it was only the airbags that comcerned me but now I have decided to keep my airbags on the 53 Buick build and lower the Nash the traditional way. Sent from my GT-I9300 using H.A.M.B. mobile app
Not sure I understand. If the car is a runner, with good battery and charging system, well, maybe. If the car needs a battery and/or generator, well, then it's probably cheaper in the long run, and not too much more in the short, to convert. You'll need a battery, an alternator (GM internal regulator very easy to wire, even easier if you have an idiot light already), some bulbs, couple ballast resistors and a bit of time. The gauges may work on 12 volts, it does depend on the gauge. Ammeters definitely will, fuel gauges are case by case (my '51 Olds' gauges worked fine on 12 volt). Oil and temp are frequently manual in the 6 volt era, so no issue at all. Wipers are also frequently vacuum, again, no issue. Heater blowers will work fine at all speeds except HI, so don't use HI. OK, so you get cold, put a ballast resistor inline to the heater feed. NOW no issue. Starters will work better on 12 volts, and are not polarity-dependent, so, once again, no issue. Dash lights that are on a resistance just need be turned down. However, they can be turned up higher, so better illumination, a win -win. It took me about as long as it takes to change all the bulbs on my '51 Olds to swap over to 12 volts (minus time spent fabbing an alternator bracket), and I got better lights, too. And you can add just any radio you want, as well as A/C, air bags, etc. etc. I just don't see the trouble or expense as not being justified. The expense, if you need battery and generator covers itself. The trouble gets you new lights, Better lights, and more dependable starting. Originality, a possible argument, is for another board. Anyone who joined THIS board expecting advise on how to restore a Nash-can, didn't read so well, now did he?? Cosmo
Hi, the car runs but only to show it goes... it needs plenty of work. It needs the loom sorting due to someone chopping some wires. The battery is shot so needs replacing. The main issue for me is reliability and availability of bits. 6v bulbs are not as easy to get as 12v and the same for the battery cost. £100 for a 6v and £40 for a 12v. I was told Its really hard to start hence why I am re wiring it, fitting new switches and a fuse box etc. The expense is a one off investment either way but the ongoing maintenance is the issue. It will mainly be short trips which dynamo's never like. Where I live is quite hilly so steep hills at low revs may not help a low voltage system. I am torn on what to do for the best but I bought the car to have fun in, not to restore and not to live in the dark ages either... retro doesnt have to mean putting up with yesterdays technology. Mission 1) get it started and test the existing generator. If it all works fine then I may try to recondition the battery. We know a good 6v loom will make a great 12v loom so thats easy to solve. This has turned into a budget build due to a very recent divorce so not being tight on funds for the hell of it, its a case of having to! Thanks for the positive feedback. Spence
Issue: 6v electrics don't work right. Solution #1. Fix what is broken Solution #2. Replace half the electrical system with new parts at great trouble and expense. Then when you are done and it still doesn't work right, go back and fix what was broken. I used to think #2 was clever. Now I don't care what is clever, I do #1 and save a lot of time and money. Now if I happened to buy a car cheap, that had been bodged and f&^$d up by some nimrod who didn't know what he was doing, it might be easier to go 12 volt. But if I had a completely 6v car I wouldn't bother. But then, this is not my first rodeo and I know what I am doing.
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