Features Paxton People UNITE!!! Centrifugal Supercharger Technical Information!!

Thanks FalconGeorge!! Great stuff!

Big Dave, could you explain the "boost referrence" thing to me again? You've really been a big help with all of this. Thanks bro!



BloodyKnuckles

 

That's so cool. Has it got crazy top end gearing in it??

 

I have used both John Erb and Craig at Paradise. I had great experences with both. Here is a car I built for a friend. This car runs good. It dynoed at 650hp at 6600. The owner wanted more but that is about all their is in a sn 60 as they really start to build heat at 7 pounds. The blowers are blue on this car because I wanted them to look like I bought them from Ford in the 60's they were white from Paxton,black from Shelby, and blue if you ordered them over the counter at Ford.


John did the vs57 for the 312 but we are just getting started on that project. so no pictures to speak of.

 

here ya go.

http://vs57.y-block.info/fuelpump.htm

Just like the 60's bro.

From other research I've done a lot of Turbo guys will says its a bad idea but that is because It's does not work too well at higher boost levels but is fine for the 5-6 your gonna be pushing.

 

Damned cool write up on boost referenced fuel pumps! That kills some of the mystery.

 

YEah it's a really simple cheap and cool way of doing it. I'm glad this info is helpful. Unfortunately I won't be getting my real world experience until my parts arrive, but I have been researching the hell out of this stuff in an effort to do it as right as possible the first time.

 

Link to the shop manual:

http://www.hotrodreference.com/1382/mcculloch-vs57-supercharger-shop-manual/

 

I had a modified VS57 on my old A-bone, one night with my foot to the wood I damaged the blower and was lucky enough to limp it home. It wouldn't start with the blower installed after. I think I spun it too fast and the internal lubrication just couldn't keep up.

I have a SN-60 to install I just lost interest in the project for now so I've just been running the 283 naturally aspirated, although a 283 with 7 psi was lotsa of fun!!

 

here's another Studebaker setup, this one about ready to drop in an Avanti restoration a buddy is working on

 

2 Shots of my recently built F-Code 312. VR58 built by Jerry Ponder. Mummert Aluminum Heads,Timing Chain Cover, Water Pump and Valley Cover. Aluminum clone supercharger manifold, Race Tec pistons. Dual drive belts for gen look alternator and supercharger.

 

That's a good lookin engine. I really like the valve covers.

 

I always found these interesting but over the years I have seen a lot of paxton installs that simply did not perform. They come off the dyno in the big city with tales of 600+ horse and pop them in even a prepared chassis to run times I could easily do with a mild race engine. I dont understand this. If they had really 600 HP they should be running seconds ahead of normally aspirated possibilties. I would like to put one on my Slant six gasser. What do you think is the BIG mistake or mistakes people make when using these. I am pro the idea and the device but for instance what advantage will I get over say a Turbo. Inquiring minds wanna know.
Don

 

It's like the man says Don,over six or seven psi,the older Paxton units get to a point of diminishing returns:too much heat builds,I imagine belt slippage is a big issue also.
You can't compare an antiquated piece of equipment like these,to something as efficient as a turbocharger.I know some guys will argue that they were using turbos all the way back in WWII on P-38 lightnings and P-51 Mustangs,but did you ever see the inter coolers they ran on those things?That would look a bit out of place on a traditional hot rod.
I'm looking at getting a twin Paxton setup for my O/T 66 Ford,but I'm going to give them a fighting chance to make some decent power by running the best aftermarket heads I can reasonably disguise as stockers,ported to the max,a modified ported Ford 2x4 intake with a pair of prepped blow thru carbs,a dedicated,modern spec blower cam,and a stroker kit to bring the 289 up to 347ci.I think the old style SN series Paxton's,and the McCullochs before them,were never really intended to see the big rpms that we are now accustomed to.Engines back in the 50's weren't the high revvers that we are used to now.Valve spring and camshaft tech restrictions were a big factor.
Basically what I'm saying is this:If you use the Paxton to enhance an otherwise strong,torquey street motor,I think you'll be pleased with the results.If you want the Paxton to be the magic bullet to turn your car into a race at,you might be disappointed....unless your last name happens to be Granatelli or something....


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I've subscribed. Very good information in here. I've been toying with the idea of a paxton on my mild 460. I think it would be the perfect candidate.

 

Not to hijack this thread, but I have a Paxton off a Studebaker if anyone is interested in one. I have had it for forty years and haven't done anything with it, so I guess I never will!
It needs some parts, but that will be reflected in the price......

 

Are there any other centrifucal blowers that can be used? I often wanted a crank driven centrifcal blower for the front of one of my slant sixes. Wondered if industry has anything that can be adapted. Only neeed 6500 so 7000 max would give a safety cushion.
Don

 

A good friend of mine runs an ATI ProCharger on his Chevy II,but it's far from traditional....I guess you could run one of those,or a newer Paxton unit,and paint it to camouflage it a bit,slap a reproduction '65-era Paxton sticker on there..?


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The original Paxton from 1953 was designed for street use on engines of around 100 - 150HP. It was meant to give better passing performance and better performance on hills, and at high altitudes. Their advertisements promised 40% more REAR WHEEL horsepower, this is believable with the 4 -5 pounds boost they were capable of.

Improved versions are still sold for 5 liter Mustangs, 305 Camaros and the like. They work well up to a point, but 600HP is just not real.

For $2000 or $2500 you can bolt one on in a day and get a similar HP boost to a hop up job that would cost as much, and require taking the engine out of the car or stripping it down far enough to change cam, intake, exhaust, etc. They do not louse up low speed performance like a hot cam can. And you can lift the hood and WOW a supercharger ha ha.

In your case it would probably be easier and cheaper just to rebuild the engine, but not everyone has your skills and a machine shop in the back yard.

By the way if you want to examine one in person I have 3 of them in the garage and I live in Cobourg.

 

As for the advantage over a turbo, I can only think of one. A turbo is apt to increase heat stress in the exhaust valve and exhaust manifold. If an engine has poor cooling in this area or is prone to burning valves, cracking valve seats, breaking exhaust manifolds the engine driven blower will be easier on the engine.

Plus an engine driven blower can be set up to deliver pressure at lower RPM and with little or no lag. I know these points have been addressed on the latest turbo installs.

In your case the turbo would probably be a better choice, or even a positive displacement blower off an old Buick or Pontiac Grand Am 3.8 or Thunderbird.

There are several centrifugal blowers on the market, all larger than the old Paxton VS57. The Paxton company (or its successors) have made 2 or 3 bigger, better models.

Paxton made the VS57 with variable speed drive starting in 1953, after a few years they dispensed with the variable speed feature and came out with the SN or short nose series starting in 1960. Model number usually refers to the year the revised design came out, like SN60 in 1960, SN89 in 1989 etc.

For a slant six the SN would be the ideal size. It was made for engines under 350 cu in. I know you are a budget kind of guy. Used ones turn up from time to time that have been taken off old Mustangs. You could ask around your speed shop contacts or look on Ebay, there are usually some for sale on there.

 

Obviously some but without cogged belts and monster overdrives I think it would be imperceptable. When we first ran a big blower (14-71) @ 50% over it deflected the lower crank pulley .250. The reason I know is that's how much clearance there was between the fuel pump drive and the pulley...which it hit! 1st and last pass without a crank support.
My considered opinion is no deflection @ 5#'s or so...

 

Original VS57 pressure, 4 - 5 PSI. It is possible to raise it to 7 PSI without too much trouble. The most you can get is 10 - 12 PSI with a heavily modified racing blower, and they have a very short life.

4 - 5 PSI up to 40% more rear wheel HP 7 PSI up to 50% 10 - 12 PSI nearly double.

If you want the real lowdown on the Paxton supercharger the guy to talk to is John Erb. I would pay good money to listen in on a conversation between him and Don Dolmetsch.

 

I sure do like the look of those twin Paxtons with a 2x4 intake....really interested to see how they would perform.


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Here's a previous thread that is specific to the VS-57 on a flathead application.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=680332

 

Could I get some clarification on something?I really like the way that a twin blower,twin four barrel carb setup commits eye rape when you open the hood,but doesn't one blower pumping 7 psi into a motor that has already been pressurized to 7 psi by the other blower seem like it would just equalize out to 7psi?
It's like putting air in your tire:If the compressor is only pressurized to 30 pounds,and there's already 30 pounds in your tire,you're not gonna get 60 pounds in there....
So what I'm asking is:
Is the twin setup just to provide adequate levels of boost to larger ci engines and/or high rpms,or is it mostly a visual thing...?
Either way,I'm pretty sure I still want the twin setup on my stroked 289.It just looks THAT badass....!


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Just talked to Craig at Paradise Wheels on Friday,and it looks like I'm gonna have a twin carb/twin blower setup very soon.
He only made a limited number of these for the 289,and is now concentrating strictly on 427 kits,so get em while you can,as they are priced right,and there are only 5 of these kits left.
He will also do all necessary carb mods for you in-house.

Scott


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I just re-read my last post,and realized that I sounded like a freakin' infomercial for Paradise Wheels...!lol!
I just want to clarify that I'm not affiliated with Craig in any way,but I do have to give him points for going the extra mile when it comes to tech advice and customer service.

Scott


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I have searched for a contact # for John Erb with no luck. Does anyone have a current working contact # for him or his company?
Thanks in advance.

 

It's more a matter of volume. VS57 or SN type is only made to feed 300 cu in or so. And then only 4 -5 PSI. With a real big displacement motor, or a real honkin hop up of a smaller one, you won't get enough air to build up any pressure. If you want more volume to feed a bigger engine you need 2 blowers.

Another trick I have seen in old pictures, is to use 2 VS57s, one feeding into the other. The second blower gets air from the first at 5 PSI and pumps it up more, for a total of 10 PSI. This is the theory, whether it worked or not I don't know.

 

I'm only familiar compounding turbos, and that works quite well for some uses. I would think that a guy could play with drive ratios for each one and make it work for a specific application. Might be limited by the actual amount of air that the housing could physically flow, but I don't know. Would be an interesting ( but $) experiment. I would guess someone here has some experience with it ?

 

Some guys have had good success with turbochargers, stripped down and modified to be belt driven off the crankshaft.

Dick Datson did a lot of work on this years ago. 21st Century superchargers and Gator superchargers were his idea.

http://www.studebakerclubs.com/21stCenturyTurbo/Page5_21stCenturyTurbo.htm

In the case of the slant 6 I think I would start with a junkyard turbo and install it as is.