Door alignment problems Mercury 1950

This is a pic of the closed driver door of my 50 Mercury. The Co-driver's door has the same problem.
I have tried to align it, but without success.
Should I have my door hinges reworked? is there anything else that I should replace? Or is there maybe some other problem?








Another question re my brake system:

On my Mercury front disc brakes with a vaccuum booster were already installed when I bought it.
However, one of the POs has installed an intake/carb/fuel pump (flathead) without vaccum port, so the vacuum hose for the vacuum booster cannot be connected. I'd like to change this and make the system work again.
On the vacuum hose there is a small shriveled plastic valve, see pic: What function does this valve have, what is it called and where do I get one of these?
Sorry for the stupid question, but my other vintage cars never had power brakes, so this is a new one for me.....




Thanks,
Lukas

 

The dreaded sagging old car door problem. Search here on the HAMB, there was a good thread about installing new hinges and a special way of adjusting them. I don't have the link handy or I would post it. Search for adjustiing Merc hinges.

You can loosen and slide the door latching mechanism to close the door more. But you need to fix the sagging first.

Fixing floorboards and sagging doors, the hardest and least noticed fixes in my opinion.

 

You might try loosing the lower hinge that is mounted on the body and use a flat washer between one of the bolts and the hinge.

You may only need to use just one washer on the bottom bolt,,,you might have to do this several times but this method has always works for me.

I little adjustment makes a huge impact. HRP

 

The valve is a one-way vacuum valve so a back-fire doesn't destroy the booster. Yours looks like it may have been leaking and somebody may have tried to repair it with black goop. I'd definetely replace it.
No help on the door gaps as I'm almost helpless when it comes to body stuff but common sense says make sure hinges are tight before doing any adjustments.

 

What you will probably have to do is remove the front clip. Once that is done, check the door hinges for any play. Remove/replace as needed, then align the doors. Once the doors are perfect, align the rest of the front clip to the doors. I had to do that to my '52 Chevy. It was a finished car when I bought it. The original owner had the car stripped to bare metal and all the rust repaired. The company that repaired the rust on the doors and removed the doors to fix the rust. When the doors were replaced, they weren't aligned. The owner painted the car without correcting the alignment. Another thing was, the core support was shot and needed a new one.

 

The lower hinge has to come out a bit ( shim under hinge ) to get the back of the door up.

 

Open the door part way and try lifting up on the door at the back if there is play or movement no amount of adjustment will solve the problem. You need to repair the hinges usually the pins or bushings. Then you can adjust. The bolts that go to the body are for up and down. the bolts on the doors are for in and out as a rule

 

I tried to lift the open doors but I can feel no movement or play in the hinges.
My guess is that the doors were not aligned correctly when the car was repainted some years ago. I will try what has been suggested, thanks!

Thanks Rocky for the explanation of that valve.
When I tried to remove it from the hose it crumbled like an old cookie. I think it was damaged by heat as it is only plastic and it was mounted near the engine.

I will try to put the new one in a safer/cooler position. I will also install a vacuum reservoir for the booster. Should I put the new valve between the vacuum port and the reservoir or between the reservoir and the booster?

 

First thing to do..Open the door a few inches, does it wiggle up and down? If so, probably one or both hinge pins are broke. You should be able to tell if you which one is shot by getting down and lifting the door up with your knee and see which one wiggles..pretty easy to replace the pins or drill and use oversized ones if needed...

Now if the door does not wiggle the doors have sagged or been tweeked at one time or another. They have no adjustment, so the only way they will fit into shape is to twist them... in, out, up or down. Your easiest solution, is to open the door 6" or so and place a block of wood under the door for a spacer in the jamb area at the opposite end of the hinges, and use a jack to lift the door up, (quite a bit past the top of the gutter sometimes) being careful not to let it fling out from the lifting force or hit the raingutter on the A pillar when its going up..Might have to lift it 2" to get a 1/4".. I have even had to bounce in the car to get some added weight to allow them to twist just a bit more... 70 lb door on spot welded sheetmetal..it moves. I have to do it all the time before a chop and i just did this to my 50 a few days ago

 

A good way to cure the situation with the sag in both doors is to check the body mounts at the front of door[nearest the front] of the door....if they are the least bit crusty or rusted they settle down....this allows the door to set lower as a result.

if they look all right,loosen these two mounts and the front "cowl leg" mount bolts and take the bolts out and replace with a tad longer new ones and slip in an extra shim between the frame and these mounts.....
may require a block of hardwood on your floor jack to raise the mount slightly =insert shim/shims and let down on it....leave the two front[cowl leg] mounts ,shimmed as they were.... that will raise the rear of doors only=
this is the correct way to fix the problem.....

 

I looked for the thread but no luck. I do remember the poster putting a block of wood in the door somewere, and closing the door. Essentially accomplishing the same thing as using a jack. The top hinge is mounted to a bracket, hangs out beyond the main post. Force deforms the bracket, moving the hinge pin forward.

A tip on removing door hinge screws. use a small phillips head attached to a small breaker bar. pull the door closed, pressing the front door jam against the tool. using the leverage to force the phillips head tip to stay in the screw head.

Another idea I heard but haven't tried. on the top hinge, shim out with washers only the two inside screws. This will rotate the hinge pin toward the front of the car.

 

Ford/Mercury bent the door hinges to adjust them. to raise the top of the door they would place a block of wood in the area of the lower door hinge and shut the door on it to expand the hinge. or to raise the top of the door you can compress the top door hinge by tacking it off and squeezing it in a vise. Also the hinge leafs can be bent forward or backwards to move the door a like direction. Another way is to cut out a shim to place behind the hinge to move it towards the rear. More than likely the pins are broken. I have found that on the Mercury's 65% of all loose hinges are in actuality broken hinge pins. I overhaul them all the time. You can check here on the Hanb for feedback on my work, I have done many Hambers hinges.

Tom

 

Although it sounds crude, I have used the procedure that T Fritz describes to raise
the sagging doors on my '40 Ford coupe successfully.
Place a block of wood in the door jamb below the bottom hinge.
Close the door slowly to pinch the block of wood in the door jamb.
The door should be held open about 2 inches by the block of wood.
Experiment by shoving the door toward the closed position a few times, pinching the
wood block. This should be done with the hinge screws tight...not loosened.
You will be amazed at the results.
And yes...this was a factory procedure at Ford for some time!

 

Did/had the same probs a few years ago.....Had my hinges "restored" with new bushings and pins. When bolted up with no play=saggy =not lining up to say the least. Went with the 4x4 and the jack.... Thanks Matt! Problem solved. Yep- gotta bend the hinges some as to not knowing where the "A" pillar has taken a set. Gotta creep up on it=a lil at a time,but all said and done,you'de never know. Had some doubters who questioned the method,and even they said they learned something.....
Give it a shot- No shims/washers. I tried that first. Was a band aid,and knowing that it didn't come like that,I would be half assing it. Sceptical=sure. But- I did it,and low and behold=perfection!

 

It looks like the gap will be too tight after you raise the back of the door. If that is the case, loosen both hinges (top & bottom) and move the whole door forward until the gap at the back of the door is 1/8"-3/16". If moving the door forward slightly causes a gap that is too tight at the front, you will need to adjust the front clip to accommodate.

Getting good gaps takes patience and lots of nit picky work, but the end result is well worth it.

good luck.

 

I had a similar problem with my 1951 merc. before restoration. New body mounts made a huge difference. Replacing the hinge pins made the doors liveable. I sill needed to add a shim of about .10 on one of the doors.

 

DO WHAT CHOPRODS SAID!!. the other methods mentioned work too but...start with the body mounts.Best way for a long term fix IMO...and I've done plenty of these. Hell you could even lift the car under the middle and see how much things move. sometimes its even necessary to porta power the top hinge forward .

 

" will try to put the new one in a safer/cooler position. I will also install a vacuum reservoir for the booster. Should I put the new valve between the vacuum port and the reservoir or between the reservoir and the booster? "<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
__________________
It should go between the engine and the resevior. If you encounter a backfire, the valve will protect the resevior, hoses and booster. Keep it as far away from the engine heat as possible.

 

A lot of advice here from people that don't know 49-51 Mercs. And yes yo could use a Jack and block of wood. You can always tell who did that by the Crushed spot in the door bottom.
Your door fit can be caused by several things. The # 1 issue is door pins/bushings. You say they feel good. # 2 is bent hinge plate between Pin hole and first mount bolt in the hinge plate. It don't take much in either of these to do exactly what you have. The "correct" way to repair is to remove the hinge and flatten them in a press providing you don't have a frame issue or Rust issues in the Rockers. Another thing often is replaced rockers welded in creating a distorted Door opening in the body, probably not your issue. Fix your hinges the right way, not with a Block of wood please.
The Wizzard

 

Since both doors are sagged, I'd look at replacing the body mounts first before doing more damage with jacks and wood blocks.

 

listen to chop rods he is correct!

 

Wizzard & choprods has it right. Also since you have already checked the hinges and from experince i would first inspect the inner rocker and A pillar to be sound by removing your door sill plates and also take a good look from the underside.

The brake booster valve is normally mounted directly in the brake booster and not in the
hose

The Erickson's / Extreme Kustoms
951 678-3520

 

I have had to do every trick to align a door on a merc to get it to fit the body..From, more shims at the front, this side, or that side, especially after some bodies end up with new patch panels or at least attempted ones..

But..if you have a Merc with body mounts that are in great condition, or brand new, with nice door gaps all around, all it takes is an idiot to hang on your door to screw that all up..Now from what i understand, that to fix this i need to place more shims under the body to correct this?? I don't think the idiot affetcted my body mounts, but they stressed the sheet metal on the pivot points of the door instead..

Think what you want about a block of wood and a jack, but 90% of the Mercs i mess with for myself or customers, might have no body or mount issues and have door sagging problems. Unless the car has seen alot of rust repair in the floors and substructure, the problem is that "swinging" thing has been openeing and closing for the past 60 years and who knows how many kids or other idiots were swinging on it...Is shimming wrong? No, especially on hardtops and converts, but if I have a stack of shims on one side to fix a sagging door and none on the other and now my front clip doesn't want to line up because the body is tweeked from left to right where do we go from here?

I would like to hear some solutions for the side to side alingment next and where to put the shims...

Never a dent in any of the door bottoms from a block of wood either.....

 

Thanks again for all the answers, very helpful.

I have a strong feeling that there's a problem with the body mounts as both doors are sagging the same way, but I have yet to check them.

As I've said the hinges have absolutely no play. The rockers (and the rest of the body) are rust free. The frame looks good.
I don't know how much metal was replaced when the car was restored some years ago. Unfortunately I do not know who did it, but it looks like a professional job and I do not think (and hope!) that the body was distorted.

However, looking at older pics of the car that were made shortly after the restoration also show the sagging doors.

Interesting is that the gap between the front fenders and the doors is completely straight on both sides, so I will also have to adjust the front clip.

 

whats the gap like from the door window frame to the A-pillar? In all honesty it does look like the top of the doors needs to go forward which will fix some (maybe all) of the sagging but if theres no room because of tightness to the pillar then you WILL need to bend hinges and/or jack the opening and raise the mount under the A-pillar but not the firewall

Slddnmatt ,when you say solutions for side to side alignment ...which bits are you wanting to know about?

oh and SurfCR I'd just about disregard the gap from front fender to door until you get the gap correct down the rear of the door. The reason being is that you can't move the rear quarter..so align to that ...then work forward.
How does the back of the hood fit to the cowl? that may tell you something ie if the gap is tapered the front may be out of alignment too.

 

Enough info and opinions already to confuse, so I'll add just a tip. I always align doors, or any other opening panel with the striker or latch removed. Then adjust latch/striker to fit........... OK one more. Bending ANYTHING for fit should be the last choice. Only after all structural/mechanical issues are found and dealt with.

 

Hey Matt,

By ''side to side alignment'' do you mean inboard or ourboard alignment from the A post? Somtimes after all the hinges have been tweeked, bolted, unbolted and just short of slotted ya have to break out the big guns! On rare occation, I've had to spread a cowl with a 10 ton Porta-Power Keep in mind that Mercurys were just expensive Fords, and didn't get the attention that the Lincoln production lines did to fit and finish. I've never seen a '49-'51 schewbaux that had anything close to good sheetmetal alignment from the factory.

 

I have used the blocking techniques myself, but I would apply the spacer =in= the lower hinge,and it did modify the alignment,but really not a cure every time....

usually a only small amount of shim is needed to correct the sagging.....usually at the rear of cowl[doorline].....
.not gonna affect the front clip at all.
Another thing other than rust,changing the dimension at these points can be as simple as deterioration of the rubber/chorded cushions the factory put there.......almost 65 years ago.
They were also ,as mentioned never that strictly fitted at the factory either....
I have seen many with the mount cushions either setting static,barely tightened or drastically overtightened almost totally crushed...
I would imagine some bodies were in some serious tension according to the fitting of parts at the time when built,and never fitted very well even when new.

 

Here is a pic of the A-pillar. There seems to be enough room between the door frame and the A-pillar. The gap between door and front fender is about 1/3''.



And this is the misalignment/sagging of the co-driver's door, just to give you an idea:




Thanks, Lukas

 

ok now take the striker plate off the B-pillar as Tinbender alluded to. then check how much the door is really dropped . Be careful not to chip the paint at the top tho..if it won't go into the hole just hold it closed and take another pic. We'll try talk you through a process of elimination if you like.
Go ahead and check the heights of the body mounts too.
Then report back . it does look like theres room to move the door forward by adjusting the hinge..but my hunch is you need to do both hinges and body mounts.