Let's Talk Cyclecars

Looking for identification.

 

This looks like fun.

 

Well, I just bought a spare set of Max cases on eBay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-Yamaha-Vmx1200-V-max-v-max-motor-engine-crank-case-cases-/290783486554?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43b40be25a&vxp=mtr

Now I can whittle without ripping my motor apart.
If things don't pan out, I can still put the motor in my Royal Star as originally planned.

The more I look at it, the more I think the cases will be fairly straightforward. The crankshaft issue will be a can-o-worms, as it needs to be longer on both ends.
I suspect welding extensions on would be uncouth...
Any tips about crankshafts Gentlemen?

 

An idea that has sporadically occupied my attention for ages:


and a rather incomplete 2F0T investigation:

 

The small Georges Irat were 1100cc FWD sports cars on the Amilcar-ward boundaries of cyclecardom. They did develop a microcar after
WWII:






"La Voiture de Bled"

 

I like the Jag. This thread could get dangerous.

 

Ever so pretty, but heavy heavy heavy...

When I swapped a SBC into my JC6C it lost so much weight that I could not even jar it off the stops by jumping on the front bumper. It looked like it had no motor at all!

 

So stiffer springs. The concept seems more about style than practicality. And those Jag engines are beautiful.

 

what are these?....

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jDTPYeYMP_Q/USjbHo8EfjI/AAAAAAAAADQ/gqO04VLIOeA/s1600/high-res_complete20.jpg

 

Not my cup of tea. At all.

 

I'll make yet another attempt: simply because a vee-hickle has three wheels, it's not necessarily a "cyclecar".
Having said that ... here you have it.
http://www.gizmag.com/go/5358/

Enjoy!

 

Marc pics. www.lecyclecariste.be

 

They are $80,000. (each)

 

You might want to prowl around some of the homebuilt aircraft sites. They often use small auto/mc motors in their builds and do re-drives for the props. I suspect crankshaft modifications would be part and parcel of something like that.

 

A milestone today.... 1/2 million reads to this thread!

 

www.libertysidecars.com here in Seattle makes a very cool Morgan styled minicar with Harley V-Twin power

 

Much the same sort of thing as the new Morgan three-wheeler. The combination seems a natural. Pity both are fuel-injected, though.

 

Congratulations to everyone who has added to this thread, I can always make room for a cyclecar, if one shows up. Bob

 

Alex Tremulis’s Gyro-X prototype under restoration

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/...yro-x-prototype-under-restoration/?refer=news

 

Looks almost like Luke Skywalker's little speeder...

 

This is cute. Near me. But, I am over my limit, so cannot take on more projects...

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/3578682928.html

Isn't this the chassis some little cars are built on?

 

There will be something on the Specials thread, though most likely in MG form.

 

I am currently stuck in neutral on my Airhead Roadster project due to my desire to keep the floor and seat height as low as possible without having the driveshaft run up and through my legs I have been studying the rules and guidelines of driveshaft geometry like crazy, but have been unable to come up with an acceptable solution. The main problem is the output height of the transmission and my desire to keep the rear of the driveshaft under the floor and on plane with the frame rails. I have a pile of parts, but can't seem to figure a way to make it all work. Anyone have experience in this department? Anyone familiar with broken back geometry, specifically with multi-piece shafts? How about Double Cardan joints with 2 or 3 piece shafts? Help, this part of my build is driveshafting me crazy!

 

You could offset the pumpkin to the right, that would get you 1/2 way there.

For the front, take a look at the 3-element universals used in old Fords with enclosed drive.
Or, study the 62 Tempest drive.

Perhaps an IRS VW beetle CV, although I do not know whether CVs are RPM-friendly...

I think I'd run an offset at the front. Something like a small 4x4 transfer case?

Better yet, you could fab your own with aluminum plates & a Harley final drive belt. In fact, I guess you could do that at both ends... Rather more efficient & smooth than high-angle U-joints I suspect.

(I made a drawing in Word, but cannot figure out how to post it here... :[ )

 

Hahaha!! I can still learn!

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f377/hardhatz/offsetdrive.jpg

OK, I'm no graphic artist, but hopefully this makes some sense...

 

I used sort of a hybrid drive shaft in my Dwarf car. The 2 piece drive shaft ran along the right side of the car. The second shaft was held between a couple of pillow blocks with a sprocket at the end. On the input shaft of the differential I had another sprocket, then of course a roller chain between the sprockets. The chain ran right behind the seat. Worked ok for a season and a half of circle track racing and a bunch of autocross. For the new incarnation of the car I just ran the drive shaft at about a 6 degree angle from point a to point b. I raised the seat height about 7" to clear the shaft. Had to make a compromise to keep the project moving.

 

Introducing a chain somewhere creates all kinds of possibilities.

The Hardhatz method lets you put the drive shaft wherever you want. In a live axle situation the rear chain could have sprockets coincident with a Panhard bar, which would eliminate any tension issues.

The bobadame method is more limited in drive shaft location, but you save one chain. The obvious permutation is to have a short chain off the gearbox output driving over to the centre of the car, so the driveshaft can run between the seats straight to the final drive.

 

Thanks for your input Hardhatz. You may be onto something with the transfer case idea. I thought about that last night thinking back to my flat bottom VDrive boating days and realized some sort of plane relocation box with a an Input on top of one side and an Output on the bottom of the other would solve all my issues. Then I remembered seeing this product a while back. Same idea really.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Steer-Clear-Steering-Box-Drop-Brushed-Finish,6254.html

The one drawing I found of a Tempest driveline certainly resembles some of the angles I'm working with. I could do a 3 piece and point the pinion down, but the output Ujoint at the transmission would have a severe angle. Most everything I have read says that the output Ujoint needs to be in the 1-3 DEG range to the transmission plane and that with a 3 piece shaft, the pinion angle needs to be parallel to the center section of the shaft. However on a shaft driven motorcycle, the Ujoint at the output is almost always in some sort of bind as the suspension moves up and down and they seem to stand up to the abuse of severe angles.

And thanks for your input as well bobadame. I may have to give up and go with a traditional 2 joint single shaft, but I'm not quite ready to do that yet. Projects like this are always about compromises. I knew from the start this would be one of the more challenging aspects of the build. At least when I get to the body part I'll be able to beat out some of my aggression!

It just occurred to me that maybe this isn't the appropriate place to discuss my build challenges. What do you guys think? I just figured you guys have probably seen a lot of interesting non-traditional setups out there and might be able to help. I can start a new thread of my own if that would be better. Hopefully I can get this solved and move on with the build.

 

Suzuki Samurai's use a very small, lightweight divorced transfer box. They are designed to operate offset opposite from what you want, but I would think it could be flipped over no problem. Might be worth a look.

 

It just occured to me that my old Guzzi uses a double universal joint just behind the transmission. I suppose that other shaft drive bikes do as well. Something like that might work for you. Rock crawler trucks use some extreme angles in their shafts but their speeds are mostly so slow that they can get away with it. They do talk about constant velocity joints in some cases. I understand that the Ford Explorer uses something unusual in their front shaft. Might be an idea there.

As far as a build thread goes, I'm new here so I asked the same question when I introduced my project. The concensus was that I should start a separate build thread. I for one would very interested in reading a lot more about your project.
These cyclecars are sort of a bastard child and this thread seems to be a welcome exception on this HAMB board. I don't know of another place to exchange ideas about them. Is there?