Man. That thing is one neat car.. But now that you have it all together, Can I have my chassis back....LMAO.... Good going Tom. Just don't let Mamma boot ya out of the seat......
64 DODGE 440 & ThingyM Tom, thanks for the nice comments. As I said when I started this build thread, I am all about the drivers seat and this has been a fun building experience. I have learned a lot and will be making some modifications to the car this winter. I have been looking forward to this weekend for almost 2 years and I will be a happy guy when them lights start counting down. Dick, I think it came out real nice, you know me, I like my dragsters to look good. All I want to do this weekend is make 1-2 singles to make sure all is good and be able to run some one on Sunday. No problem with Dixie as she has reminded me a few times that her burn out's in the N/E-1 car were quicker than I may be able to run. She was ruined for slower rides after her 7.02@199 AZ, 1996 So I have the seat all to myself. You can have the frame back if we can build a new one that has about 18" more leg room, it's a tight fit for this "BIG" boy. Maybe throw in that 300 Ford motor in the deal. No substitution for Cu In.
tom could i ask you to throw that intake in your trailor? the aussies are coming in and want my son and i to throw a tune up at the 7.0 car this weekend so they can test and tune at the anra event. it`s not for sure because i think they forgot about the recirts on everything. hope to be there. yes i`ll bring a few pictures. Thanks, Dan
Alright been chomping at the bit all weekend wondering what kinda new records you have set with the new ride. Come on give us the scoop?????????
Well folks, As old WJ would say I got schooled by the track and sent home to do my homework. I had a few new car woes this weekend. Now that the season is done I need to address two main problems, the front wheel hop from side to side and the brake system. On the wheel hop I am going to have both front wheels checked for trueness and balance. This may be were the problem is coming from. I do not have any shocks (regular or friction) on the car and will be adding a set of friction units to the front end. Question: Should the friction shocks be mounted parallel to the frame or parallel to the axle? I am going to totally redo the brake system as I can not hold any RPM at the line and can not get up on the converter at all on the start. The geometry on the peddle setup is all wrong and I most get a better peddle ratio for the brake system to work. Question: I have a Mustang 8.8 rear that has 9" brake drums and 1 3/4" wide shoes. Are there any drums that will fit this setup that are larger? I have not been able to find any. I may go to the Disk brake from a later year if I can make it fit. Any ideas!!!!! But the bottom line for the weekend was that it felt great being in the seat again and seeing all my racer friends, it don't get much better.
I don't think the shocks will know which way they are oriented Tom. Regardless of how they are mounted, they should provide resistance to the movement of the axle. Just try and have them connect to the axle out toward the spring shackles and they should work fine. Check with Old6rodder, I believe he had a problem with wheel bounce and solved it without shocks.
Tom we had the same problem with a rear engine car. It was fine in the 1/8 but could not make it threw the 1/4. We balanced the wheel and tire combo on a bubble balancer and never had any problems out of it. I agree about the shocks not knowing the difference. Speedway makes a nice rear disc brake kit that works really good I have used many of them. The drums should work fine consider they will hold a mustang with more horsepower. The bore on the mastercylinder could be to small or as you said not enough leverage from the pedal. Just wondering what kinda ET you got out of the car?????
64 DODGE 440 & injected27 Tom, That is what I thought they could be mounted either way. I pitted next to Dick all weekend and we even tried an old dirt track trick on welding the top of the axle shackle on one side, but no real difference. Dick said that until he got his rims balanced real good he had the same problem on the top end. Going to pull them this week and have them checked for trueness and balance. Still had a great time and lots of fun. Jason, A local tire shop here has a machine that can check both the rim trueness and the mounted tire trueness, then we will check the balance. These motor cycle tires were a little hard to mount on the 30's rims and maybe there is a problem with that. Was never able to make to make a full pass all weekend. First qualify. I just walked the car off the line to about 1/2 throttle to the 1/8 mile and then full out to the 1/4, wheel hop got bad about 1200'. Next time I left hard of a dead idle and it pulled hard to the 1/8 then wheel hop started and I got out of it. The second pass had a 2.01 - 60' and was running 10.85@67 at the 1/8 mile when I had to get out of it. Not anything to jump up & down about but a start.
You have come this far and I think you have done a great job. Work them gremlins out and hit it again.......
Tom, I don't know where I saw it, but someone had made a comment a while back about changing the toe-in on the front end to toe-out to cure a similar problem. You might want to do a search on the main board and see if anything comes up.
Ya Tom, I am running 1/8" toe in like I have on all my dragsters. when we were talking Sat after Qual. was over Dick commented that I might want to try 1/16" of toe in. With these cars able to run 120+ I want to have at least a 1/16th toe in to make sure I am around -0- on the top end.
Tom, I'm glad you had a great time. Nothing like hanging with like-minded racing friends. Although I've only hit 90 MPH with my car I had no wheel hop problems. I have '35 Ford wire wheels with motorcycle tires, just like you. I checked runout on 5 wheels and selected the best pair. They have almost 1/8" of runout. Balanced them myself by spinning them on the axle spindle and marking them, adding stick-on weight and repeating until they stopped randomly. 1/8" toe in and 12 degrees of caster. Main difference between our front suspensions is I have home made friction shocks. I have a '27 T roadster with quarter elliptic front springs and the same home made friction shocks. Occasionally I get some wheel hop. It is cured by tightening the shocks. Hopefully your situation will be cured with some shocks.
Bob, It was great to be back on the track after a 4.5 year absence even with the new car problems. I have seen your friction shocks on both the dragster and the 27 T, real nice. The more I get into the front end hop, the more I feel it is in the rim trueness, tire mounting & balance. Like I said above I will take them in later this week and see what I have. I still want to get the shocks on the front as the front end was pretty light on the one good leave I made with the motor as far back as I have it and my 270# in the seat I would think I may be in 75/25 ratio, have not scaled it yet. Shocks should help with the general front chassis movement. Do you think a 6.8 to 1 peddle ratio is OK? The Chassis Shop has a nice below floor peddle assembly with master that would work nice in my frame and move my foot a few inches forward. That setup comes in 3/4-7/8-1" master cylinder. Any recommendations?
I run a 7/8 on my super comp car and I hear that is pretty standard. I might go with the 1 inch considering you are leaving on the convertor and might need the extra pressure. no way of telling without a gauge to see what you are making with it now.
Actually, the smaller the diameter of the master, the more line pressure you will get. It's a ratio thing.
Bob, Thanks for the sight, I read through it and got some real good information on the complete system. The numbers work out that I have about 675# pressure with a 4.5 ratio (need 600-1200#) for a good system. That 6.8 ratio under floor unit puts out 1020#. I may be able to change my existing ratio to get 980-1080#. I need to check my master cylinder size as I may want to reduce it also.
At 6.8 to 1, definitely go with the 3/4". It'll cost you a bit more pedal travel, but will improve both feel and effectiveness. X2, good info, and accurate (though not culminated well). A 7/8" master gives more pressure at the wheels than a 1". A 3/4", more still.
Get some shocks on that thing. Will make a big differance.. Glad you had a great time..Wish I could have been there. But you know how that is...Check the wheel trueing and balance with the shocks..Sounds like only a couple of repairable gremlins..New car blues.. Has the grin left your face yet.?? BTW.. Toe out, Makes them steer funny..It does "Load" the front end, But the front end goes funny...
Hey Tom, How 'bout sending me a new picture of the Juice Bucket IV (the bottom of the barrel) for the picture thread? Needs updating now that you have'er painted up. [email protected]
old6 - I sent the picture to your regular email, thanks. That site bobw sent really put things straight and I may be able to modify by existing setup to get a 6 to 1 ratio without cutting it all out and go to a 3/4 master. ThingyM - Shocks are coming for sure, test wheel & balance later this week. When I get this brake thing re-done I want to make a few power starts out in the street when I can get up on the converter (2500-3000). There is a real stumble when you leave that is caused from low RPM or the intake single hole under the plenum is still to small or a combination of both. I have a few ideas to try in the next few months. I will say that on my first test pass I was able to push it full open from the 1/8 mile to the finish and that "BABY 194" pulled like I could not believe, I like that cam that George cut for it. For start of next year I am going to pull that head and mill it, put bigger valves & do some chamber work. Re-do the intake and build a set of true headers for it. I really want to see how quick that little dude can run. Great being back in the seat. Will be more fun when you get your's back on the track. I met Dan Maciel from up in Jamestown on Sat and he had some pictures of his rolling chassis with the 292 & PG in place. He should have it ready for the ANRA 2013 Opener. Three SDRA cars would be a lot of fun next year. Keep working on the small stuff that don't cost so much.
Hey, injected27, Re-reading my post re your post it looks like I was "piling on". Not intended that way, I hadn't read enough of the other responses before I posted. My apologies, that's a habit I should break.
No problem here old6rodder. We are all just trying to help Tom and the class. I just know on a hydraulic cylinder the bigger the bore the stronger the cylinder. I am sure there is some kinda math to this. My way of thinking is a 1 ton truck has a 1 1/8 bore and it has killer brakes.
injected27 - Jason click on that article that bobw put in here a few replies back, I read through it and there is all the math and figures. As an example they showed two masters with the same pedal pressure that went from a 1 1/8" to 1" you gain + 26% efficiency. The only time I know that "SMALLER IS BETTER", sorry if I offended anyone, but I could not pass it up. I will more than likely switch to a better Wilwood 3/4 master and try to keep my existing pedal setup with some modifications.
bobw - Bob, I know that both our cars use the same old 30's spoke wheels, your are 16" I think (may be wrong) and mine are 17". I rolled out both with a dial indicator and one is 0.090 out and the other is 0.124 out. really not bad I don't think. Test check was on a painted section so they may be .005-.010 off just from paint thickness. Will check balance in AM. What do you think on the readings?
Absolutely, or I'd never get a parade float stopped (and that'd likely annoy the spectators' shins ). But while a hydro (or wheel) cylinder uses the pressure, a pump (or master cylinder) makes that pressure. So the pressure effects work the other way on that end. Actually, the math is that the total surface area of the master piston face compared to the combined total surface area of all the wheel pistons' faces gives a ratio that is the holy number for the hydro side of it (there's a mouthfull, eh?). I doubt I could even do it "longhand" any more, I'm far too reliant on calculators these days.
I seldom settle for any more than .020" (about a decent points gap worth). In addition Tom, I never have trusted run-out & wobble readings from a rim (no proof, just paranoid I guess, as I'm far too familiar with production practices). I always do it from inside, at the bead seat and bead retaining wall. Likely an over-reaction, but that's just my way.
old6- Ya Dick I was only able to take the reading on the outside of the bead seat as the tires are still mounted. Will see what they look like after we balance them. I really feel that the problem is balance and no shocks.
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