Questions about an engine rebuild

So my son dragged home an old beater he got from a friend. Its been confirmed its time for a rebuild compression test showed (not the end of the world).
My question is what should a machine shop do to ensure the block is not cracked (magnafluxed or other)? Any other tips or things you guys would do? Thanks!!

 

What kind of engine are you talking about ?

 

64 Impala 327

 

they should clean the block and magnaflux it to make sure there is no cracks. then hone, deck, new cam bearings etc. since you have it apart it will be worth it to get all the machine work done at one time.

 

Thanks! Want to run the Block to see if its original to the car. If it is will tell him not to loose them numbers for my son! Just have not sent a motor out in many many years so thought I would ask incase somethings are done different today!

 

post the numbers that are stamped on the top of the block deck, in front of the passenger side head. You can usually get away without decking the block, although they are often pretty far off. If it's not going to be a race engine, and it is original to the car, it would probably be worth leaving the deck alone.

They pretty much always need to be bored, after hot tank cleaning and magnaflux checking for cracks. Crank may or may not need to be ground...it probably will. Rods should be resized, new rod bolts would be nice. Heads will need guides, maybe hardened exhaust seats or maybe not (depending on how long you want it to last, and how hard it will have to work). You'll want to replace the valve train (cam, lifters, pushrods, rockers, valve springs), valves if the stems are worn, etc.

 

Any engine rebuilder I've dealt with over the decades has a standard rebuild service price. I would stick with that for starters.

Ask them how they want the engine, heads off or on, etc. Take whatever else you want cleaned there as well and they can hot tank everything and it shouldn't be much of an add-on.

Unless you have all the tools and experience, it may pay for them to assemble the short block for you. I find that they can provide parts at a better deal than if you bought them yourself.

Bob

 

Let me suggest a second alternative to rebuilding the stock engine right now. Maybe you should consider a Goodwrench 350 base crate motor. For the roughly $1500 they sell for you can't do a decent rebuild for that kind of money. They come with a 3 year warranty, and are complete from oil pan to valve covers. All you do is bolt on your accessories, like intake, exhaust, pulleys, alternator, etc. and bolt it to your transmission.

You could store your correct motor and do it at your leisure. The car could be on the road much faster. I did a guys Vette with one and had it back to him after a weekend, it was the easiest "rebuild" I have ever done.

Just another way to go. Here is how it comes.......all nice and clean and painted even.



Don

 

What's the horsepower rating on the Goodwrench long block???....
And is it a 4-bolt block????...
What other goodies are packed inside???...

 

290/300. They are the best bang for the buck. I believe a 2 bolt. It's the later block so one piece rear main. They come with a flat tappet cam but they may have the provisions for roller lifters


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Believe it or not, it is a four bolt main. Here are the specs.

GM Goodwrench 350ci/260HP Engine & Packages


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Free Shipping! This universal 350ci engine uses a brand new block and can be used as a replacement for most GM vehicles from 1973-85. It produces 260 HP and 350 ft/lbs torque with a 4-bbl carb and headers. It can be used as a replacement or as a retrofit into almost any vehicle. This brand new 350 crate engine comes with a GM warranty and is covered for 3 years or 100,000 miles in applicable GM vehicles only.
Specifications
4-bolt main with 2-piece rear main seal
Cast iron crankshaft
LT1/LT4 powdered metal connecting rods
Cast pistons (dished)
Hydraulic flat tappet cam (.383''/.401'' and 112° lobe separation)
Cast iron cylinder heads with 76cc chambers
8.5:1 compression ratio
Block is compatible with left or right side oil dipstick (Requires Plug for Unused Side - Plugs are Included)
4-quart oil pan
Timing tabs for a 6-3/4'' or an 8'' balancer
Recommended spark plug: Accel #111-0574-4 or any spark plug with 14mm .460'' reach, 5/8'' hex, tapered seat, projected tip


I know a few guys who have bought these and swapped in a hotter cam for a rough idle, and they all love them. I can't rebuild an engine I have for the $ 1499 they get for these.

Don

 

ive never bought a crate engine, but the next sbc i use will be one. i cant even come close to building one that cheap. not by a mile. hell the machine work i had done on one was alot more than that.

 

Just bought one of the GM crate engines,same as Don shows. Needed a few accessories to so Crate engine ,dipstick &tube,fuelpump,motor mounts complete gasket set including Fel-Pro header gaskets and new intake bolts. Total was $1799 delivered to my door,drop tailgate R&L haulers and they called day before to let me know time of delivery. No core charge at all. Couldn't ask for a better,cheaper and quicker way to get back on the road.

 

a 64 Impala with the rebuilt original 327 is a worth more than the same car with a crate 350. any savings realized from using a crate will be lost at resale time. even if it costs $500.00 more to do up the 327, it is more than worth it... for me anyways.

 

Don't kid yourself on that. Most people would just as soon have the 350, in all but a concours restoration. For the people like you that think the car is worth $1000's more with the 327 I usually offer them the worn out motor free with the car. I have never had to load the 327 into their truck.

 

i've always wondered why they made this a 4-bolt main block when this block can't take more than 400hp anyways---and you don't need 4 bolt mains to achieve 400hp which is probably not a good power level for this block to begin with?

 

Please quote your source that this block cannot take more than 400hp. I think GM sells them with more than 400hp.

 

I don't need a source quote C-10 is not a dummy, but I would like to hear his thoughts on it, is there something that makes this block inferior to other small blocks? Thin webs or thin walls or low grade iron?

 

The quality of the Mexican engines has been improving.

 

I will throw out my experience with a GM crate motor.

A local vending company had a big silver bodied service truck. I think it wa a gruman body. They blew the engine, and put in the GM crate engine 350. after about 10000 miles, it was runnin like crap, and a buddy got the truck for cheap.
I bought the engine for $300. He scrapped the body after pilfering what he needed. We where ahead.

All the valves in both heads where being sucked unto the heads. The valve seat pressure was an ideal 85 lbs. 60 is stock, 110 is what I like for street rod.

Make a long story short, after initially thinking it was a stuck or plugged EGR system causing the cylinders to run hot, my buddys machine shop concluded, it was cheap Japanese valves.

I was told GM doesnt make the engines, they are out-sourced to the lowest bidder. And is 2 bolt main.

In closing, your buying the warranty in my opinion. After a valve job, its been a good engine so far. I was quoted $1800 for my 283 to get a total rebuild from a reputable builder here. It needed punched, crank polished, New pistons, rings bearings cam ect and freshen the heads seats ect.

The weakness is because they are not 010 blocks. They are new casts. I was told the same thing, 400hp and then your pushin it.

1 more thing, forget the warranty. Read the fine print,... "engine comes with a GM warranty and is covered for 3 years or 100,000 miles in (The catch)>>> applicable GM vehicles only.<<<

 

Was it a new GM engine, or a rebuild? From what I can tell, GM sold a lot of reman engines that came from various sources. They also have sold a lot of new engines that come from their plant in Mexico, such at the ones that we're talking about here.

My most recent experience with a new GM 350 was with a replacement engine for a late 80s truck, one piece rear seal, it cost quite a bit more than $1500 but also is smog legal for the vehicle it was installed in. The rear main seal leaked. GM warranted the engine...they paid me to R&R the trans so I could change the rear seal, and they provided the parts.

I guess they're good engines.

 

i've used many of the GM 350 260HP crate motors with good luck. it's a good way to go if you can't do some of the rebuild work yourself or you want it quick and easy. as said , put in a better cam , a good intake/carb and a set of headers and it will burn all the rubber you want...i know that for a fact!

but...i like working on motors , so i prefer rebuilding them for my on cars. i'm doing a 283 now. and yes... you end up with about the same money as that crate motor. but that is what i want

it's just a matter of the owners choice , i can see both sides of it

 

Don has it right, excellent NEW engines with excellent warranties. We're not talking about the old Targer Master rebuilds here. Don't listen to all the bullshit. If you want to keep the original that works fine too. You can have one rebuilt here in Alabama for about the same price. However, it won't have a 3 yr warranty and it won't have GMs quality assurance plan. Good luck whatever you decide.

 

sorry Target Master.... misspelled

 

not kidding anybody. how is offering a worn out motor the same as selling the car with the original motor rebuilt and installed? if you don't think a car like a 64 Impala is worth more with a rebuilt numbers matching motor than a crate 350 you are just plain wrong, it is that simple.

 

Your kidding, right???..
These blocks can handle well over 400 ponies if prepped right....

 

The reason I suggested he keep the old 327 was in case they ever wanted to restore the car or otherwise keep it semi original. The suggestion about the crate motor was that IMO there is no faster way to get a car back on the road than starting with one of those.......much faster than going the rebuild route.

As for the reason GM made these 4 bolt motors, I suspect some of that decision was guided by their desire to supply companies like Mercruiser, Volvo , and OMC with marine engines. Probably the most popular motor ever used in inboard and inboard/ outboard boats is the 350/260 hp GM based motor. Because marine engines typically operate in the 3200 to 4600 rpm all day long a strong lower end is needed for that application. We bought a lot of the Mercruiser 260 HP replacement engines and they were essentially the same one I posted a picture of.........probably why GM paints all of them black, a Mercruiser color.

Finally, here is my take on rebuilding a motor. Even a good percentage of the ones done by "professional rebuilders" fail right out of the box. We used to sell a very famous line of remanufactured motors where I worked and that company came right out and told us we were going to have a 10% failure rate.......that is their national average. I bet if you had a way to calculate how many rebuilds done by home builders fail it would even be higher..........we have had our own problems with motors we have built, so I know it happens.

Because the OP was asking basic rebuilding questions, it tends to make me think they haven't done it a lot, so buying one that is already assembled just seemed to be a safer option to me.

Don

 

It would only make a difference on a total numbers matching bone stock "Barret Jackson" type restoration. The average local show winning restoration or less it just will not matter. The car will be worth more with a chromed up 350. Just like most 55 -57 Chevys. The low dollar stocker is usually worth less than the low buck modified.

 

If I had a '64 Impala with a bad 327, I'd rebuild the 327. Not for resale value, but because it's what that year and make of car deserves. Sometimes, convenience isn't the proper thing to do.

Reminds me of the people who used to replace the engines in thier mid 60's, E series Jaguar's with SBC's. Conveniant? Yea. Honorable? Not by a long shot.

Tradition isn't convenient.


Damn. Did I just write a cool signature?

 

Thank you, but i am a dummy. Seriously; long story.

Anyways, GM themselves do not rate this block for more than 350hp per the gmpp catalog, page 169. It's right there in print.

Now, what i meant was i really don't think it can take more than 400hp as in 500hp. And let's say it CAN take 400hp. Well, you don't need 4 bolt mains for that. You may need 4 bolt mains for 500hp, but i would bet money this block can't take 500hp---not for long anyways.

i don't think it's a bad engine at all---i used to run one and am thinking of getting another, but my opinion is the 4 bolt main is completely unnecessary in this application.